Tournament to celebrate Mangalyaan in Mars Orbit

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josiah777

I can go down the middle. I think inportant for your goverment to feed your people Skand, but I don't like the way kaynight accused you of it.

zborg
kaynight wrote:

No they should not be proud. End of.

It will give them lots of new material for BOLLYwood.  In between wars with Pakistan.

Let them enjoy it.  Maybe there will be another SlumDog Millionaire type movie to come out of it.

Noticed how chess and (rampant) nationalism are bosom buddies on this site ?

Indeed, that's one hell of an "English Castle" of a home in Mumbai.  Laughing 

Skand
kaynight wrote:

Was not aware I accused Skand of anything personally. He appears to be a reasonable well- informed person, with whom I disagree. I do accuse the Indian Government of gross neglect though.

In a democracy people get the government they deserve. Had we shown the contempt corrupt people deserve and not elected them, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

So if someone gives me only two options to blame for the current status of poverty in India: Government or Public, I will choose public. The buck stops at public which for decades, voted for consideration other than competence of a candidate (like caste, religion etc).

It still does not mean Indian Space Program or nuclear program or super computer program is wrong. We can't afford to play catch up in every other areas just because we are behind in some socio-economic areas. Besides, sometimes intangibles have greater effect than tangible gains.

yesbee

Einstien (I believe) said that one needs to rise a level above the complexity of the problem to solve the problem.

In a country where poverty is rampant (dont see the indians denying that here), and where a population as big as most countries (UK for example) sleep hungry every night, the way to solve it is through science, technology and education. 

Learning (getting educated) is difficult on a hungry belly... one needs inspiration... the spend on the space craft was a brave risk (they would have been the laughing stock if the thing had plonked out of the sky), it paid off ... they are happy, it will inspire the next generation to study, work, achive... maybe solve some big problems (energy, climate ...) for the world (not just for themselves)

Why cant we just be happy !!!

If you dont want your govt to hand out money, write to your congressman/woman (or however it works in your country)... vote them out if you have to. 

Before the Industrial reveloution (led by UK - kudos), China and India contributed 30-45% of world GDP ... while it may never be that high the shift will happen.  Smaller countries (sorry UK) will have a reduced sphere of influence, unless they come up with newer, better technology (industrial revolution ver X) ... there is no point in living in the past ... move on.

If we (as humans) remain unaccomodative & oppressive, the parts of humanity that feel that they got an unfair deal will express themselves violently and globally (just look at the middle east, what a mess).

So ... in conclusion, as a UK group sang "love is all you need... " (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_You_Need_Is_Love , you may have heard of them ;) )... Alternately, as the british comedian Billy Connolly said - "life is a ... " http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsLfooSY8cA

Peace !

josiah777
kaynight wrote:

Was not aware I accused Skand of anything personally. He appears to be a reasonable well- informed person, with whom I disagree. I do accuse the Indian Government of gross neglect though.

I was wrong and I'm sorry. How about if I worded it this way. Kaynight accused India's reforms.

jammufox

@kaynight

 

you are telling that all those in england and the west are feeding themselves..

we had seen the drama that unfolded when olympics happened in england..

so put your foot back in your mouth and don't disgrace our country.. you hypocite.

lakshashishu
kaynight wrote:

Why do they need money from the UK, if India is involved in that nonsense?

nobody asked for aid,but some in UK thought it will fetch them the fighter jet deal(eurofighter typhoon),which didnt realised....so some loosers started whining....

in case

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWXiTFzGKBM

Pulpofeira

I prefer the Watson & Crick approach.

Skand

Much of objection to India's space program comes from a misconseption that India is a poor country, so why is it squandering money on non-vital issues.

Whether space program is vital or not (I think it is) for India's freedom of expression at world forum and protection of borders with two very hostile neighbours can be discussed separately.

Let us first discuss whether India is poor or not.

Rich and poor are relative terms. Here, for this discussion I will define "poor" as 'too poor to afford feeding it's people'. So is India poor by this definition? The answer is an emphatic NO! 

So where is the problem? The problem lies in improper distribution of wealth. Are government policies very bad? NO, they are not. The problem lies in executing those policies. For example, the tax rules are reasonable now, but still the application is not. Just 2 days back a powerful politician was sent to jail for having disproportionate wealth. But it took almost 20 years for this verdict! And this politician can still challenge it in Supreme Court! And there are so many other politicians like this one.

A corrupt politician corrupts the whole system. It is for people to throw out such politicians and bring in good people. No doubt, the corrupt politicians will fight tooth and nail to remain in politics and even use violence. But if the society as a whole fights against such rogue politicians, such elements will remain on fringe. However fighting requires guts and willingness to suffer at the hands of the goons that corrupt people hire. If the society is unwilling to accept this risk, the goons become even more bold. The individuals in society need to stand up to wrong doings, then only it can function as a civil society.

In India, there seems to be a new found intolerance towards corruption. This gives hope.

The problem is not that of resources. We have enough wealth to feed even Pakistan. After all Pakistan is just the size of a state in India. The problem is not using these resources properly.

Will not having space program, result in better distribution of food grain that rots in warehouses (instead of feeding the needy)? Not at all, the two are mutually exclusive. There is enough money to spend on Mars mission as well as transportation of food to the needy. If at all, the success of space program will open the eyes of people and show them what we are capable of. Indians will ask this of government, "if we can send a probe to Mars, why can't we send food grains to the needy in time, within budget?" This will put pressure on politicians and bureaucrats, who are reponsible for planning and executing the plans to deliver - just like the scientists did in ISRO (Indian Space Research Organization).

To summarize, space mission in India does not take away resources that are needed to feed the hungry. Bad planning does. India has enough wealth to sustain both with better execution of plans.

Crazy_Assassin
Brazil_World wrote:

i agree that india is a prosperous and powerful country and one day in the future they will surpass china to become the strongest Asian superpower ,the problem like in many developing countries was corruption but reforms and social awareness is very effective. the future of the world belongs to the eastern nations, with the hallmark of progress, innovation, and development. let us not forget that india is the great nation which introduced spiritual awakening, meditation, and transcendental concepts like nirvana and karma to the entire world

agree!

Crazy_Assassin
Skand wrote:

If at all, the success of space program will open the eyes of people and show them what we are capable of. Indians will ask this of government, "if we can send a probe to Mars, why can't we send food grains to the needy in time, within budget?" This will put pressure on politicians and bureaucrats, who are reponsible for planning and executing the plans to deliver - just like the scientists did in ISRO (Indian Space Research Organization).

To summarize, space mission in India does not take away resources that are needed to feed the hungry. Bad planning does. India has enough wealth to sustain both with better execution of plans.

awesome point

lakshashishu
macer75 wrote:
Skand wrote:

OK, I get it. Are you referring to the aid that India does not want but the UK is begging India to accept as per The Telegraph (the Peanuts news).

https://www.devex.com/news/india-calls-459m-uk-aid-peanuts-77419

Well India had not asked for it. In fact India does not want it. Read this and many other articles about it. It is well documented.

So why exactly is the UK giving aid to India if India doesn't want it? I did not find the article particularly elucidating with respect to that question.

for this deal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_MRCA_competition

lakshashishu
kaynight wrote:

I guess feeding the people is not a sexy enough project for the Indian Government then.

food security act was passed last year,which aims to provide food to aprox. 2/3rd of the population at very low cost(<1/20th of the market price).

Scottrf

Ignore Kaynight's self-righteous tone. The UK have well over half a million people using food banks while we also have a space program. And nuclear weapons. And spends billions invading foreign countries.

Likhit1

Skand-Wth are you even responding to the Kayknight guy?Makes no difference at all what he thinks about India or the Mars mission.

Skand

On the contrary, I welcome Kaynight for expressing his views (never mind the language he used initially). It gives me a platform to tell the whole world what real India is all about

Skand

It gives an opportunity to many, to start thinking of India and this part of the world in a new light.

Skand

Please also note that kaynight has shown no illwill towards India. In fact he is on India's side and he feels bad that the current decision makers are ignoring the poor in favour of, what appears to him, glamour.

I am trying to convince him and like minded people (they exist within India also) that our space mission is not for glamour. It is a vital program for us and it is not an "either this or that" case for us. India is well capable of feeding it's people and have space programs (mind you, it is not necessary that it will meet such spectacular success every time).

Skand

Let people chew on the fact that India is the only democratic country on this part of the world which is providing a balancing act against some very arbitrary, irresponsible and unpredictable forces.

Can India and others really trust a country whose scientist-hero stole nuclear technology from west and clandestinely purchased missile technology from North Korea?

When they consider these facts in a cool manner, they will understand how important India's space program is, not just for India but the whole region and world. And India can afford it. In fact India cannot afford not to have it.

Pulpofeira

Skand, I admire your understanding and knowledge, but above all I admire your manners. I would be glad to see yourself more often around here.