vacation ad infinitum

Off topic: Guys, it makes this thread really hard to read when you are quoting so many previous posts.

Can you think real hard and tell me the rules of a 24 hour time limit?

 I haven't missed a deadline yet.  I do not plan on missing a deadline.  I do not want to lose every one of my games if the library computers become super busy, or even lose a few games if I am an hour late.

Should I really have to turn on vacation time every time I log off, just in case I don't get online again in time?  What is the harm in MAYBE having a few opponents wait from an hour to a day?  By definition of my problem, its not like I'm using the extra time to asses the situation.  I literally move in a minute or two anyways.

Beezlebub:

Are you objecting to auto-use vacation time, auto-use vacation ABUSE, or vacation time?

Your claimed problem is an inability to make your moves within the time limits you agreed to.  That means you should lose the match on time, that is the meaning of the time limit.  I have asked you several times now what you think the meaning of the time limit is, and it does appear that you think 'a general guideline', though you are understandably reluctant to actually state that.

There are a wide range of time limits available to suit people who fear they can't manage a move every 24 hours.

"

Beezlebub:

Are you objecting to auto-use vacation time, auto-use vacation ABUSE, or vacation time?"

How are you not getting this yet? I'm objecting to relying on auto abuse to extend your move times past the agreed limits.

Auto USEAGE is not the same as auto ABUSE, though.  I would be abusing it if I was capable of making my moves in time, but was using vacation to study a position more, or something.  Or are you claiming anytime the auto-vacation kicks in, the player who's protection kicked in should automatically resign the game?

As for your point about the time limits, you're the one that's obviously not getting it.  My average time/move is VERY low, I am usually online almost all the time, and make moves continuously.  So I joined a 24-hour tourney, and other 24-hour matches.  Then my laptop broke. 

Oh, and one more thing.  Let's say I know I'm leaving on vacation tomorrow morning.  Since I know I have auto-vacation protection, is it really that bad to let it kick in only when its needed, to save at least 24 hours of vacation time?

Do you know what the word 'vacation' means?  Extending your move times because you cannot meet the move committments you agreed to, is not a vacation.  Going on vacation, is a vacation.  These simple points are unchanged by whether or not the use of vacation time is automatic.

"Please only use vacation time in an honest matter when you are away from the site for an extended period of time."

It really seems quite straightforward.

Why the fixation with playing games with a 24 hour per move time limit? If you think that you may be "too busy" or unable to meet the time limit which YOU AGREED TO in the first place, then there are such things as 2 day, 3 day, 5 day, 7 day, etc. per move games available at chess.com. Just try a few games with these longer time limits and you should not have to worry about missing a 24 hour time limit by an hour or two. Easy solution. 

If I were to forget or somehow miss a time limit in a game I was playing then I would fully expect to lose that game on time because I did not fulfill the rules set for that game. I accepted this responsibility at the moment I agreed to a game with a known time limit. To try to pass that off (losing on time) as anything other than my own doing would be irresponsible on my part. Since unforseen circumstances can (and will) hapen, that is where the responsibility in choosing the right time limit comes into play. You can't deliberatley choose a relatively quick time limit and then turn around and complain about how unfair or burdonsome that very time limit is. It just doesn't work that way.

Legitimate use of vacation time is acceptable, but not as a way to disadvantage or inconvenience your opponent because of your own time management issues.

I stopped playing 1 day games.

But I still had some 1 day games that I wanted to finish.

So I finished them, but I ended up auto-vacationing during this time period, due to playing the same time every day and the timeout protection starting with 2 hours remaining.

Now that I only play 2-14 day games, my auto-timeout protection doesn't kick in anymore.

The neat thing is, because I pay for this site, you know that I am most likely going to return and finish the games.  It would be a waste of money not to.

I'm playing 100 games at the moment, before I was playing 200.  Auto timeout protection is a lifesaver, but tell you what, exactly who in their right mind takes 24+ hours to examine a position assuming they decide to devote their life to beating one particular opponent.  I average about 45 seconds per move.  Most of my potential timeouts come from the game system not giving me the games in the correct order, such that the "next ready game" isn't due for 3 days when a game is about to expire in 115 minutes.  Enough of this nonsense about using vacation time to examine a position further.  It's correspondence chess, even with 24 hour time controls you still have essentially an infinite amount of time to examine a position.  You want to play blitz? Play blitz.  Otherwise... enough.

Exactly the problem, habitual use of the auto abuse to extend move limits because through your own fault, in this case taking on too many games, in the other guys case due to taking on time controls he thinks he can't always meet, you can't meet the agreed limits.  There's nothing wrong with the next ready game system.  With 24 hour time controls you have up to 24 hours, it is not intended to be 24 hours + vacation time.

 Alright.  Well, I could then take vacation for 17 days and be "away from the site for an extended period of time."  I'm assuming most of my opponents would rather I just MAYBE end up automatically taking less than a day of vacation.  I quite literally go out of my way to get on chess.com and play my games, and if the auto-timeout has to kick in, then it does.  Would you think I was abusing the system if I was hit by a car and had no access for a week?  Should I then, when I get back online, resign every single one of my games and see my rating plummet.  Note that I don't care about my rating for the sake of my rating, but I use it to measure my relative skill level, and I owe my opponents the fact my rating is at least someone accurate.

For those of you who aren't reading my posts, don't reply.  I'm not going to address the "If you can't make 24-hour limits, don't join 24-hour games" again, since its obvious anyone making them either isn't reading my posts, or else realizes that that's not the case at all, and are hoping others will read their posts but not mine, and misunderstand the situation.

Oh, and if anyone I am currently playing against reads this: If my vacation automatically kicks in against you, and you ask me to resign the game, I will.

Why would you resign?  We're playing on chess.com here, and chess.com has auto-timeout protection.

 Because I strongly believe (and this isn't meant to insult anyone who disagrees). that contrary to Beelzebub's view, most people prefer a good game with someone who might have access issues than getting a few rating points from said opponent resigning the game immediately.

I'm sure your opponents would actually prefer you to play by the rules they and you agreed to play by.  If as you claim this is such a rare problem, then your losses on time aren't going to affect your rating a great deal, and hopefully after it happens a couple of times a few brain cells might spark up with the idea of three day limits.  If it's as rare an occurrence as you claim then your best course after the removal of the auto abuse feature would appear to be to play on as normal and accept a loss on time here and there if you fail to play within the time rules.  It may even encourage you to play games where you can meet the requirements.

People hit by cars who lose their games on time probably aren't going to find their rating to be their chief concern, and will have plenty of time while recuperating to rebuild it.  Erik seems a reasonable enough fellow, I suspect he may even adjust your time out percentage to tournament level in the event of a genuine car strike.

The people chiming in with 'if you can't meet the limits play longer limits' are making a simple point which you are not in fact addressing.  However long winded or fanciful your explanations of why you can't guarantee meeting the limits are, is irrelevant.  You are aware you have this problem with 24 hour limits, you are aware longer limits are available.

Your offer to resign any games where you abuse vacation to extend moves is a little bizarre given your arguments that it's perfectly all right to do so.

SensFan, I completely agree with you on this. It sounds to me like you easily make the 24 hour deadline consistantly, but perhaps one time in the next two weeks you may accidentally take 26 hours. Since chess.com correspondance games aren't critically important to anyone, and since everyone playing on chess.com has a life outside of it, it should be easy to understand that some circumstances may lead to you missing a deadline by two hours. Since you're a paying member with auto-timeout PROTECTION, there should be no issue here. You're protected.

I play 24 hour games. I've been playing on chess.com for a year and I've never had a timeout. My auto protection has kicked in three times in this year. Two of those three times were because I went on vacation and didn't feel like setting it manually. The other time was an extenuating circumstance. Should I have resigned all 8 of my games that would have timed out? No.

This is a worthless argument. It's clear that SensFan is playing very fairly and within the chess.com rules of play. He is not abusing the auto vacation. He intends never to use it. If he makes it to his computer within 24 hours 99.9% of the time, why should he have to play 3 day per move games to make up for the 1 out of 1000 times he can't make it?

I can't believe anyone even cares this much. We're all playing correspondance chess on the internet with people we don't know. If two extra hours ruin the enjoyment of your game then I'm sorry for you. I'll make sure to stop using auto-vacation when it stops being a feature.

EDIT: Auto-vacation kicks in because the player is away from his or her computer for an extended amount of time. I would assume an extended amount of time means enough time to make you time out. In other words, the auto-vacation fits the rules of vacation usage. If SensFan is away for 26 hours, this is obviously longer than he normally is and thus is a vacation from chess.com, however short. Who said a vacation had to last 3 days? Five days? Ten days? What's the rule? What time limit does the vacation limit declare, Beezlebub?

You aren't reading my posts, obviously.  I have never had a problem with 24-hour time limits.  (In fact, I don't think I've ever taken more than 8 hours to make a move, other than when I went on legit vacation).  Then my friggin laptop broke.  It's not like I'm joining 24-hour games now.  I'm saying I don't think I should run the risk of losing several games because my laptop broke through no fault of my own.

"The people chiming in with 'if you can't meet the limits play longer limits' are making a simple point which you are not in fact addressing.  However long winded or fanciful your explanations of why you can't guarantee meeting the limits are, is irrelevant.  You are aware you have this problem with 24 hour limits, you are aware longer limits are available."
You, sir, fail at arguing.  At the time I joined the 24-hour games, I was not aware I would have such issues.  I am not currently joining any games, let alone 24-hour ones.

"Your offer to resign any games where you abuse vacation to extend moves is a little bizarre given your arguments that it's perfectly all right to do so."
Well, I suppose we'll see that not everyone on this site is as self-centered as you.  And if someone tells me they would expect me to resign if my timeout protection kicks in, then I will be going on vacation for 2 weeks.  That would be better for them, according to you, right?

Well said. If I'm too self-centered to understand that SensFan's situation is clearly within the rules of auto-vacation use, then perhaps I should offer to resign all of my games because I need to re-evaluate my priorities.

#1.) My chess.com opponents auto-vacationing due to broken laptops.

#2.) The rest of my life.

Hmm, are these priorities correct?

Don't play dumb, you are arguing that you need a facility to automatically extend move times because you may not be able to meet the 24 hour limit.  If you can't meet the 24 hour limit you should lose a game with a 24 hour limit.

Whether your laptop broke, you are just too busy with school work (though you seem to have abandoned that earlier justification now in favour of the 'it's not my fault' claims) or you got hit by a car, a game with a 24 hour limit has a 24 hour limit.

And if someone tells you they do expect you, having offered, to resign if auto protection kicks in, you seem unable to comprehend the option of actually losing on time when you lost on time. If the only possibility you can see if going on vacation in all games for a couple of weeks, you cannot then pretend any force for your argument that it's all for the convenience of your opponents.

It's good to hear you don't really believe your own arguments, and have stoppped taking on 24 hour games rather than rely on auto vacation abuse, and are willing to resign any games where you have used auto vacation abuse.  Rather odd after all these concessions that you feel the need to keep arguing your ever receding point, but progress is certainly being made. 

All this twisting and turning to obfuscate what is really a very simple position you take that the time limits are really only a general guideline and it's perfectly ok to extend them at need using vacation time.

"Please only use vacation time in an honest matter when you are away from the site for an extended period of time."

No timing is specified.  If you want to be dishonest and dense you can pretend that means 'please use vacation time to extend your moves because you just can't make it to the computer for a few hours'.  If you want to be honest, then you can't.

Let's say someone signs up for a 24 hour game with you and moves every 36 hours throughout the match.  Can you see a problem then?  It's breaking the same rule in the same way, where are you drawing your arbitrary line?