KRpKR endgame: why is this position a draw?

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Trebe

This position is a draw with black to move, but why?

I expected black to win because this looks like passive defence (the defending king and rook are at the backrank). For passive defence it holds that only rook and knight pawns draw. What am I missing?

FEN: 8/8/8/8/8/2kp4/2r5/R3K3 b - - 3 2

MARattigan

I think it holds that rook's pawn or knight's pawn imply draw but not draw implies rook's pawn or knight's pawn. 

fianchetto123

Whose move is it?

Arisktotle

I'd say the black king is in the wrong place. Black (on move) wins for instance with the king on d4. In the diagram, the white rook can always activate itself on the a-file before black can organize a mating threat to keep it on the back rank.

For instance: 1. ..Kb2 (or ..Kd4)  Ra8! (but not Rd1?) and the white king can not be bothered.

MARattigan
fianchetto123 wrote:

Whose move is it?

Don't think it matters. But the board's upside down judging from the comment about back rank.

Trebe

lol its black to move and draw!

http://chesstempo.com/chess-problems/83675

Trebe
fianchetto123 schreef:

Whose move is it?

It's blacks move

fianchetto123

The problem is that White can meet 1...Rh2 with 2 Ra3+ Kd4 3 Ra8 when White is about to start giving checks and Black cannot make progress. If 1...Kb2 2 Ra8 Re2+ 3 Kd1 and again White will draw with checks.

n9531l

It's a draw because the black king is in the wrong place. With the king on e4, Black wins.

OR

It's a draw because the black rook is in the wrong place. With the rook on b2, Black wins.

OR

It's a draw because the pawn is in the wrong place. With the pawn on c4, Black wins.

Arisktotle

May be we are in the wrong place. On an adjacent board, black wins. Wink

Trebe
n9531l schreef:

It's a draw because the black king is in the wrong place. With the king on e4, Black wins.

OR

It's a draw because the black rook is in the wrong place. With the rook on b2, Black wins.

OR

It's a draw because the pawn is in the wrong place. With the pawn on c4, Black wins.

yep I also looked at these possiblities in the lomonosov tablebase. If the black rook was on b2 i.e. its also a win.

For me to remember is that passive defence might even work for central pawns if the black pieces are badly coordinated. So dont give your opponent control over the queening square!

BronsteinPawn

The king is on the wrong side of the board, the usual way of winning this is to get an skewer in but because Black's king is exposed White can actually get his rook active and prevent him for opposing the White king on the last rank.

Arisktotle
BronsteinPawn schreef:

The king is on the wrong side of the board, the usual way of winning this is to get an skewer in but because Black's king is exposed White can actually get his rook active and prevent him for opposing the White king on the last rank.

Hurray! Halfway score: wrongking 2 - wrongall 2.