Where did I go wrong in this rook endgame?

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llamonade2

Sometimes I have fun and come off as a bigger jerk than I really am, so I'm glad you didn't take it too badly happy.png

NotYourAveragePlayer
tlay80 wrote:

Optimized, the point is that there are lots of positions where you'd *love* to have your rook behind the pawn, but it's not in the cards.  This one, assuming you look past the nice catch on move 31, is one of them.  And there are lots more where there never was a chance to begin with.

I recently worked through (part of) the thirty pages Dvoretsky devotes to this sort of an endgame.  Short answer is that it's right that the best chances usually involve stopping at the 6th rank and walking the king over.  In this case, it also helps that it's a knight's pawn and not a rook pawn.  That's because White has to prepare to eventually give up their rook for the advanced pawn. But meanwhile, they'll have won some or all of your kingside pawns, so your king has to get back in time to win a rook vs two-or-three pawns endgame. This would be harder if it were one file further away, but on the knight's file, it's often a win -- at least in practice.  Theory, amazingly, still isn't completely settled on some of these, and people are still finding improbable wins in allegedly drawn endgames and vice versa.  For instance, a drawing defense was apparently recently found to some endgames like this that involved White using their king to block Black's king from getting to b2.

 

Which chapter or pages is it in Dvoretsky's endgame manual? I will have a look and see if it helps me understand how to play these kinds of positions.

NotYourAveragePlayer
llamonade2 wrote:
Lonteon wrote:

Trapping your own rook IN FRONT OF the pawn seems like a weird decision. I'd defend it from the side to get more rook mobility.

This makes sense, but when the pawn is so far back it means your rook will be on your 3rd rank, and actually it would be pretty easy for white to draw in that case too.

 

What exactly is the reason one would want to defend the pawn from the side and what is meant by "more rook mobility"? In effect, what are the concrete advantages of defending the pawn from the side?

NotYourAveragePlayer
llamonade2 wrote:

Putting it in front gives the best winning chances, and a rook in front of a knight pawn on your 6th can be technically challenging to defend (although I've forgotten the details). The basic reason is that it's closer to your king than, say, a rook pawn on the 6th.

 

So, am I understanding you correctly in saying that, generally speaking, with a black pawn on b3 the rook is better placed on b1 than a rook on b7? Why is that exactly? One hears all the time that rooks belong behind the pawns in rook endgames.

tlay80

It’s the section in Chapter 9 titled “Balance on one wing and an extra pawn on another.” Most relevant here is the subsection on knight pawns, though the two sections before it help set it up. Of course, white’s mangled pawn structure means it’s not exact. 

NotYourAveragePlayer

Thank you tlay80, I will definately have a look at that chapter!

llamonade2
Optimissed wrote:

Thought you were drunk. Then realised it was an act of friendship.

Maybe a little of both wink.png