Advice on decision making...

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Slibbidy

Hello, everyone! I've been playing chess for about 6 months, and have mainly stuck to puzzles while I do lessons. I managed to reach 1720 and then began to see sacrifice to fork puzzles and mate in 4 puzzles that I'm not able to see yet. In addition, sometimes even after I analyze a puzzle I can see that it worked but can't think of a way I'd ever see how it could work in a game.

For example, take this puzzle:

https://www.chess.com/puzzles/problem/1121634/practice

When I looked at it, I saw several things:

  1. My DSB is done for. I should probably take the other DSP since I'm going to lose it anyways.
  2. My queen has a chance to fork the rooks.
  3. If I don't find a way to get rid of the queen or rooks, I'm looking at mate in 3 if the king moves to h8 and rook moves to g8.

Of course I tried 1, failed, then 2, failed, and finally just asked for the solution. I did not even remotely think about the fact that I could move my rook to f6 to threaten the queen since it would be protected by the pawn on e5. Generally, any time I play (which is not often, because I don't want to lose every game this early in my "career") I wouldn't even attempt a move which could lose a queen or rook because 9/10 times it's really a blunder.

What should I do to train myself to see these types of moves? Should I even attempt threats like that given my lack of skill? Should I start playing 30 minute games and suck it up because losing doesn't matter? I'm not expecting to be good right away, but I'm definitely stalled around 1600 in puzzles.

IMKeto

When doing tactics you always want to look for forcing moves:  Checks, Captures, Threats. 

 

Slibbidy

Thank you, that makes sense. I think I run into trouble with these because not only do I have to evaluate my best option, I then have to evaluate the best response. Making two excellent moves in a row is...rare. happy.png 

IMKeto

Just remember that tactics are always forced lines(forcing moves), so that makes them easier to calculate since they are forced. 

Get into the habit of calculating out all forcing moves, even the bad ones.  This forces you to learn to see the entire board.

0Syrius0

Esse é muito fácil.

Slibbidy
0Syrius0 wrote:

Esse é muito fácil.

We can't all be brilliant, I guess.

IMKeto
Slibbidy wrote:
0Syrius0 wrote:

Esse é muito fácil.

We can't all be brilliant, I guess.

Just ignore those types of comments.  They offer nothing constructive. 

boschlager

Your idea with trading the dark square bishop is a good one, but it just leads to an equal trade and nothing more after the queen recaptures. When you see a capture is possible, always look for a way to make it better. Ask "can I win material immediately?" The answer is no. Why? The queen is defending. So can you remove the queen? Yes, you can;  Rf6 removes the queen as a defender and hits the bishop as well. At that point you have two attackers vs. one defender, so you can take the piece. Do this whole process every move to help you spot tactics in games more often. Hope that helps with the thought process, sorry if I explained poorly lol

daxypoo
i understand what op talks about when bringing in the heavies from the back ranks

but one thing to consider when bringing them in, especially rooks, is “are there any easy pawn moves that will attack rook?

in the puzzle, there are no pawns that can harass rook on f6

so you get at least one tempo with the Rf6 move and can move it back if the maneuver doesnt quite pan out
Slibbidy

Here's a better example. 
https://www.chess.com/puzzles/problem/1044982

I break 1700 and then hit 4 puzzles in a row where I have sense of what I need to do but can't see the in-between moves that get me there. I would never see that forcing the king to capture my rook and bishop is going to allow me to capture their queen. I understand the points calculation, but what am I supposed to be seeing that tells me "it's ok to lose these pieces on purpose." The computer loves the position, but I'm not able to see my advantage.

daxypoo
your recent example is one of those puzzles where i see the solution but, as you mention, the resulting position isnt a knockout

i think the “learning” is that you are supposed to say- dang- if my bishop wasnt there i could capture the queen- so- how to i move my bishop to capture the queen

a lot of tactics can be nurtured when you take a “dream position snapshot” of what a position could be and then work backwards to make it possible

the rook sacrifice places the opponent king on a square where the “dream bishop” can check the king; after the check you are free to take the queen (it is a poor puzzle example where the material sacrifice of rook and bishop for queen is only +1 and the resulting position will be the real determining factor of whether to pull the trigger or not)
Slibbidy

OK, that makes me feel better. In a game I'd likely never do this, but maybe I just need to start trying. I can only drop to 400 regardless of what happens.

IMKeto
Slibbidy wrote:

OK, that makes me feel better. In a game I'd likely never do this, but maybe I just need to start trying. I can only drop to 400 regardless of what happens.

If youre serious about improving?

1. Stop worry about the online rating/points. 

2. Use a real board and pieces.

3. TAKE YOUR TIME.  Why is this in caps?  Because its that important.

If you can solve a tactic in 2-3 minutes, then its a pattern you dont know.  YES...spend 2-3 minutes on each tactic. 

4. Make sure you understand the theme, motif, and the how and why behind the position.  How did the game go that caused that tactic to appear?

This is why i prefer sites that allow you to play out the entire game.  This way you get to see how things unfold, what caused the tactic, how a weakness was created, how piece activity helps, how important space is.

IMKeto

In the example posted...

White has the following advantages in the position:

Space.

Piece activity.

Weakness in the opponents position. 

From this you can use forcing moves to find a good continuation.

Slibbidy
I have no problem taking my time. I’ve spent over 20 minutes on a problem and may not see it, but that’s ok because I’ll learn. I’ll stop caring about my score. I think I’ll try to find some practice puzzles in the 1400-1800 range and practice those until some of these patterns start showing themselves to me.

When you say white has a space advantage, how is that evaluated? It looks equal to me, though white seems to have a better pawn structure.
daxypoo
you mentioned in your earlier post about waiting to play games until you get better

but, in a way, games are more forgiving than tactics puzzles

in a live game, especially at our level, you dont have to play perfect moves all the time and you learn why this works or that and why this doesnt

and the tactics that arise are much more personal; you can relate to them way more since the position was partly one’s own doing

i get great tactics training from going over my own game; ones i see, ones i miss, ones my opponent has, etc

playing gamed with 1. d4 and 2.c4 and ...c5 vs 1.e4 i will get (more than i can count) the tactics that involve checking the king with my queen and capturing an undefended piece- that tactic that always pops up

it is cool to get rewarded with tactics we practice all day after working to get a good position

anyways; just my $.02
PerpetuallyPinned
Slibbidy wrote:

Hello, everyone! I've been playing chess for about 6 months, and have mainly stuck to puzzles while I do lessons. I managed to reach 1720 and then began to see sacrifice to fork puzzles and mate in 4 puzzles that I'm not able to see yet.

Does this mean you're a Jack of Some and Master of none? You may be doing very well for only 6 months.

In addition, sometimes even after I analyze a puzzle I can see that it worked but can't think of a way I'd ever see how it could work in a game.

Because you've only seen a few games, probably. That comes with much experience.

For example, take this puzzle:

https://www.chess.com/puzzles/problem/1121634/practice

When I looked at it, I saw several things:

  1. My DSB is done for. I should probably take the other DSP since I'm going to lose it anyways.
  2. My queen has a chance to fork the rooks.
  3. If I don't find a way to get rid of the queen or rooks, I'm looking at mate in 3 if the king moves to h8 and rook moves to g8.

1&2 are a little vague..."should probably"  & "a chance to..."

3 sounds like you've calculated something out

Of course I tried 1, failed, then 2, failed, and finally just asked for the solution. I did not even remotely think about the fact that I could move my rook to f6 to threaten the queen since it would be protected by the pawn on e5.

IMHO, you're doing puzzles wrong. You're guessing moves and only 1 or 2 at a time before revealing the answer. The trick (again my opinion) is to calculate the entire puzzle first (before making a move on the board).

Generally, any time I play (which is not often, because I don't want to lose every game this early in my "career") I wouldn't even attempt a move which could lose a queen or rook because 9/10 times it's really a blunder.

The real reason is because you don't calculate completely. Go back to Bacon's post and carefully look at it.

You're thread title tells me you know there is a decision making process to follow. That's the process, right there...write it down. Do it

What should I do to train myself to see these types of moves?

Again (imo), try to focus on puzzles of the same motif until you've mastered it. Master of One, not Jack of Some. Then, move on to the next motif.

Should I even attempt threats like that given my lack of skill? Should I start playing 30 minute games and suck it up because losing doesn't matter? I'm not expecting to be good right away, but I'm definitely stalled around 1600 in puzzles.

Another opinion (call me Opie), play daily games and take lots of notes. You can play 30 min games for fun or to test your progress (but that should take a while). 30 minutes wasn't enough time for a puzzle, is it enough for an entire game?

Sometimes (in a game) there are no tactics (good ones anyway). This is where you need to evaluate. You commented about space and pawn structure, those are parts of that process as well...but a separate process from calculating. This is done after calculating, to the point of (omg I can't spell) quiescence.

Hope that helps you out some, it should.

PerpetuallyPinned

I know @IMBacon has posted something (a little less position specific) on forcing moves before. If he doesn't post it here, I'll edit my reply above (if I can find it).

IMKeto

How to solve chess tactics.

Chess Tactics are probably the most important part of the game you can work on. 

Chess Tactics are broken down into different “motifs” with the most common ones being:

  1. Forks (Double-attacks)

A fork, or double-attack, occurs when your move makes 2 or more threats at the same time. A fork or double-attack is a powerful tactical idea because it’s hard (or sometimes impossible) for your opponent to defend against multiple threats at the same time.

  1. Pins

The power of a pin lies in the fact that the pinned piece essentially can’t move since doing so would expose another, more valuable, target. The point is that you can often find a way to take advantage of the immobilized (pinned) piece.

  1. Removing the Defender

When a piece or important square is defended, then that piece or square can become vulnerable once you remove its defender. This is usually done by a trade, threat or sacrifice that removes the defending piece.

  1. Discovered Attacks

A discovered attack occurs when you move a piece away that reveals a strong threat from a piece that was behind it. The power of this idea lies in the fact that you can also use the moving piece to make a strong threat of its own.

  1. Tempo-moves

A tempo move is a move that gains time by making a threat that forces your opponent to defend passively. This kind of move is particularly useful if you can use the tempo to achieve a tactical (or even strategic) advantage.

 

How do you find tactics?

Whenever you are doing tactics, you will notice that the side with the tactical shot will generally always have one or more of the following advantages:

  1. Advantage in space.
  2. Advantage in material.
  3. Advantage in piece activity.
  4. Weaknesses in the opponent’s position. Such as weakened pawn structure.

 

 

How do you calculate tactics?

Look for Forcing Moves:

Checks

Captures

Threats

You look for these 3 things in the order given. 

Checks are the most forcing, as the King is being threatened.

Captures are next, as you are threatening to win material.

Threats are last, since they are the least forcing of the three.

Forcing Moves are easier to calculate out, as they are forced lines of continuation.

 

Start by looking for any Checks you may have.  Calculate them out as far as you can. 

Then calculate out any Captures you may have.  Calculate them out as far as you can.

Then calculate out any Threats you may have.  Calculate them out as far as you can.

Once you have found the Forcing Move you think is correct.  Play it!  Right or wrong, go with what you think is the correct move.

After each tactic, whether you got it right or wrong.  Make sure you understand the tactical motif, and why you had the correct, or incorrect answer.

Onlysane1

One thing to keep in mind that you shouldn't try to fork connected rooks with a queen.