Is strategy just a tool to fill the holes when complexity is too high to use tactics?

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m7rcelo

Hello, everyone. This is my first post here. I apologize if this idea is obvious, but I've been thinking about it for a while and would appreciate some outside input (which, I guess, is me doing strategy instead of tactics right now).

First, what I understand is the definition of the two central terms in this discussion, from the perspective of a player during a game of chess and considering only valid, in-game moves (i.e. we're not considering real world aspects, such as tiring out an opponent with less stamina, etc.):
- Tactics: picking the next move with highest probability of winning in a given position;

- Strategy: picking the move or sequence of moves that will guide the board to a position where you are more familiar with the probabilities, and can from there more easily find the correct tactics (e.g. strategically picking an opening, because there too many moves with very similar winning probabilities at this point).

From the way I defined those, you can already see what I'm trying to say: strategy in only a way to fill the holes until you get to a level of complexity where you're able to think tactically. Which is in agreement with the people who say that chess is 90% tactics and 10% strategy (given limited computation capabilities, because with infinite computation it would, as most things, be solved).

This, I believe, is also the way modern Deep Learning engines approach chess. Their approach, in my understanding, is mostly tactical, using probabilities given by a neural network, but sees a big (about 10%?) improvement when adding tree-based search as a strategy, according to the definition above, to simplify the search space when it gets too complex.

An idea that follows from that is that chess, when considering only valid, in-game moves, and given the average human's capacity for pattern recognition and probability computation, is mostly a specialized training for tactical thinking, because its complexity is low enough for us (and our current computers) to approach it in this 90%-10% fashion. While the real world, where complexity is just infinitely higher and you can strategically influence starting conditions, desired outcomes and sometimes the rules, is much more strategic. Thus, a game with higher search-space complexity, that therefore forces us to use more strategy (e.g go), is more applicable to the real world? Or is real-world strategy so complex that a lifetime of tactical training with chess is more effective given a person's limited lifespan?
Also, is real-world chess, with all the aspects that I decided to ignore (stamina, how you decide to train, bad-faith actions, mindset, etc.) already much more strategically balanced than 90%-10%?

In addition, I'm aware that my definition of tactics above may be overextended so as to be encompassing aspects that some would consider as part of strategy. Therefore, feel free to discuss these starting definitions, if you find that is the best way to make the conversation more fruitful.

Thank you to anyone who took the time to read so far.

Best,

Marcelo 

m7rcelo

Thank you. I believe we came much to the same conclusions, but your way of putting it helped clear things up for me. See if you agree with these, please:

1. There aren't pure tactical moves in a unsolved game: we don't have the true winning probability for any move and can only estimate it with the help of strategy.
2. Games are always more tactical than the real world, because the restrictions that define them always reduce the search space (reduce entropy, as you put it).
3. You can approach chess (and life!) thinking that "tactics are the servants of strategy", as Mikhail Botvinnik said, or the opposite. In the end, you're going to need a good command of both, and a developed intuition of when to use each, to reach your goals in situations with imperfect information (any interesting situation). While a perfectionist may argue that striving for the impossible exactitude of tactics is where the beauty really is, and a more creative player may say that the impossible complexity of strategy is magical, they just might be thinking of the exact same thing.

About the third paragraph, do you mean the part about Deep Learning game engines? You got me there that I was rambling, because I used to work with Machine Learning but haven't in a while, and I didn't study these engines' algorithms' in-depth before making my comments. Still, I think that analyzing what they are doing can be very useful for this kind of discussion. A kind of empirical test to what we're maybe trying to understand philosophically. Although technical, this paper about AlphaGo explains these experiments better than I could: https://deepmind.com/research/publications/2019/mastering-game-go-without-human-knowledge

Chess_Player_lol

i would say tactic is a tool to use when you succeed in strategic play

blueemu

Tactics is what you do when there is something to do.

Strategy is what you do when there is nothing to do.

m7rcelo

A few more interesting links:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11833994
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_information
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum_game
https://www.ponssard.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/The-values-of-information-in-Some-Non-Zero-Sum-Games.pdf
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3689297
https://arxiv.org/abs/1509.01727

In my last message, I included chess in the "imperfect information situations" that I mentioned. That would be wrong according to Game Theory, because it's not a imperfect information game if players are informed of all the events that occurred in a game. But, as "kevinwang" in the first link mentions, I still think it's useful to think of chess as imperfect information because it's not feasible to compute all its possible variations currently, therefore limiting the interpretability of these events.
Also according to Game Theory, two-player zero-sum games, perfect or imperfect information, can be solved. Which could lead us to infer that unsolvable, non-zero-sum imperfect information games (e.g. the prisoner's dilemma) might be the most applicable to real-world scenarios. I remember reading once that, if such games are played repeatedly, though they're not solved tactically, it's been demonstrated that the best strategy is tit for tat. Still, it's important to remember, before studying these games to apply them to life, that life does not obey Game Theory, because it's not a game, and the objective is not to win, but what you come to believe it to be (for the religious, such as me, it's frequently believed to be to care for one another).
P.S. There's a review about the TV show "Billions" somewhere that argues that it's the perfect show to change the minds of those who believe that life obeys Game Theory.

tygxc

#1
Strategy is tactics at more depth.
Example of tactics: I sacrifice my bishop and it is a forced checkmate in 5.
Example of strategy: I advance my b-pawn to weaken his d-pawn, to ultimately win it and then queen my extra pawn in the endgame.

RAU4ever
m7rcelo wrote:

Hello, everyone. This is my first post here. I apologize if this idea is obvious, but I've been thinking about it for a while and would appreciate some outside input (which, I guess, is me doing strategy instead of tactics right now).

First, what I understand is the definition of the two central terms in this discussion, from the perspective of a player during a game of chess and considering only valid, in-game moves (i.e. we're not considering real world aspects, such as tiring out an opponent with less stamina, etc.):
- Tactics: picking the next move with highest probability of winning in a given position;

- Strategy: picking the move or sequence of moves that will guide the board to a position where you are more familiar with the probabilities, and can from there more easily find the correct tactics (e.g. strategically picking an opening, because there too many moves with very similar winning probabilities at this point).

From the way I defined those, you can already see what I'm trying to say: strategy in only a way to fill the holes until you get to a level of complexity where you're able to think tactically. Which is in agreement with the people who say that chess is 90% tactics and 10% strategy (given limited computation capabilities, because with infinite computation it would, as most things, be solved).

This, I believe, is also the way modern Deep Learning engines approach chess. Their approach, in my understanding, is mostly tactical, using probabilities given by a neural network, but sees a big (about 10%?) improvement when adding tree-based search as a strategy, according to the definition above, to simplify the search space when it gets too complex.

An idea that follows from that is that chess, when considering only valid, in-game moves, and given the average human's capacity for pattern recognition and probability computation, is mostly a specialized training for tactical thinking, because its complexity is low enough for us (and our current computers) to approach it in this 90%-10% fashion. While the real world, where complexity is just infinitely higher and you can strategically influence starting conditions, desired outcomes and sometimes the rules, is much more strategic. Thus, a game with higher search-space complexity, that therefore forces us to use more strategy (e.g go), is more applicable to the real world? Or is real-world strategy so complex that a lifetime of tactical training with chess is more effective given a person's limited lifespan?
Also, is real-world chess, with all the aspects that I decided to ignore (stamina, how you decide to train, bad-faith actions, mindset, etc.) already much more strategically balanced than 90%-10%?

In addition, I'm aware that my definition of tactics above may be overextended so as to be encompassing aspects that some would consider as part of strategy. Therefore, feel free to discuss these starting definitions, if you find that is the best way to make the conversation more fruitful.

Thank you to anyone who took the time to read so far.

Best,

Marcelo 

I don't think I can agree with the definitions you give in this post. 

Chess positions are made up of differences or characteristics of a position. There are a lot of different possible differences: think space advantage, weak pawns, etc. Even the beginning position has a difference: it's white to move, so he has a little bit more time. Chess evaluation consists of a weighing of all these differences in a position: they are interconnected. The most important difference there is, is a material advantage. If one player is up a queen, he's very likely to win. Of course, that is not the case if the side with the queen is getting mated. Here you see an example of connectivity: king safety can be worth more than the sacrificed material. Evaluating a chess position is about weighing all the pros and cons of both of your positions and then having an educated guess on who's better. 

Now if I want to give a definition of tactics, it would be this. Tactics are (forcing) moves that force the opponent into giving the other player an advantage. Because a material advantage is so important, almost all tactics will focus on winning material. I will just focus on an advantage though, as there can also be tactics where you force your opponent to get a very weak doubled pawn and hope to win the resulting position. 

In every position there can be a tactic. As these are moves that force the other player to give you an advantage, you'll always want to be on the lookout for a tactic. However, there are also plenty of positions where there are no ways to force your opponent to give you an advantage. In these positions you still need to make good moves that will improve your own position. That's where strategy comes into play. 

I find that strategy is hard to define exactly. Strategy is all about the differences between both positions and how they interact. If I have a bishop and you have a knight, I'll want to get an open position, because the difference in the position (I have a bishop, you have a knight) will work better for me with the bishop in an open position. So I'm trying to make the difference into an advantage for me, while making that same difference a disadvantage for you. If I have a weak pawn, I'll try and get rid of that, because it's a minus on my position (and thus a pro for you). Or I can try and get a piece to a slightly better place, because a better placed piece is also an asset to my position. For example I won't just have the space advantage and a safer king, but my knight now also occupies a great central square. If my pieces stand on great squares, they're an advantage to me and a disadvantage to you, especially if yours aren't doing much.

Strategy is not so strongly linked to tactics as you've defined it. It is true that 'tactics flow from a superior position' but the goal of a good strategy is not to get to a position where there will be tactics. The goal is to steer the position to a position where the characteristics of the positions are more advantageous to you than to your opponent. Good strategic play can be so overwhelming that no tactics will even be needed to win the game. 

Chuck639

From my schooling, I understand strategy to be an action plan. Within that plan, it could contain steps, concepts, objectives and guidelines to facilitate an aim.

Think classical chess vs hypermodern chess? You have a center oriented game occupied by pawns vs pieces aiming at the centre. Two different strategies and ways to play. 

Another example, in the Sicilian we fight for the d4 square via c5 as a strategy. Key concepts would be counter play, rook on the c file , opposite castling, expanding on the queen side with a6 and b5.

With regards to tactics, it’s a specific action to reach a short term goal.

RAU4ever
EheuMyKing wrote:

the way i put it is strategy is long term and tactics are short term

Yet this doesn't have to be the case either. Strategy is not just a grand plan that you'll try to execute over the next 30 moves. These grand plans are actually extremely rare in chess. This is because your opponent also has a say in the matter and they usually just don't want to do nothing and wait for you to fulfill your plan. This is contrary to the times of, say, Nimzowitsch for example, where opponents would passively wait and see if their position could be breached. 

Strategy can, and usually does, consist of a short plan for the next few moves. A specific strategic plan to get your knight into a more active position can be 2-3 moves deep, the same kind of length a tactic could be. Another example would be a strategic plan to remove one of your weaknesses. This can also be a strategic plan of only a few moves deep. If you think about it, during the early parts of the game, strategic plans happen to be 1 move plans all the time. Think about when you put a rook on an open file. That's basically the fulfillment of a strategic plan to improve your rook.