Why are some openings considered "for beginners"?

Sort:
Ladrithian

But Samuel, who would you recommend?

SamuelAjedrez95
Ladrithian wrote:

This is actually not at all a bad refutation of my idea. I still find The Vienna to be a solid defense but he does have some strange ideas like he literally recommended newer players to try The Scandinavian.

It can depend on which line of the Vienna you play. Overall, the Vienna is a decent opening. It's not white's most active choice though and doesn't put so much pressure on the opponent compared to the Italian or Spanish.

The Scandinavian is very dubious. There is no refutation but if you don't know what you're doing you can get into trouble as you are moving your queen around a lot in the opening and allow white perfect development for no real compensation.

It's more the silly gambits and sidelines that he teaches like a3 and b3 sicilians. These lines are somewhat playable but they are also not very good. They are basically just meant for bullying lower rated players lol.

SamuelAjedrez95
Ladrithian wrote:

But Samuel, who would you recommend?

ChessCoach Andras. He teaches a brilliant combination of good principles and beautiful, exciting, attacking chess.

trimalo

non sense, all openings have detractors and pros and cons, haven't they?

SamuelAjedrez95

I will let him speak for himself

https://youtu.be/LlPHVLfFH3I

https://youtu.be/P7ig6AFXB00

SamuelAjedrez95
trimalo wrote:

non sense, all openings have detractors and pros and cons, haven't they?

But some openings have way more cons than pros and those cons can be exploited.

Ladrithian
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
trimalo wrote:

non sense, all openings have detractors and pros and cons, haven't they?

But some openings have way more cons than pros and those cons can be exploited.

Indeed. Development, attacks, and overall longevity of play (very underrated principle by lower rated players that advanced opponents should understand) all should be considered relevant. 1. e4 clearly is the better option for all three than 1. f2 for example. 

Ladrithian
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:

Good stuff. He looks a lot like Shahade!

Ladrithian
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
Ladrithian wrote:

This is actually not at all a bad refutation of my idea. I still find The Vienna to be a solid defense but he does have some strange ideas like he literally recommended newer players to try The Scandinavian.

It can depend on which line of the Vienna you play. Overall, the Vienna is a decent opening. It's not white's most active choice though and doesn't put so much pressure on the opponent compared to the Italian or Spanish.

The Scandinavian is very dubious. There is no refutation but if you don't know what you're doing you can get into trouble as you are moving your queen around a lot in the opening and allow white perfect development for no real compensation.

It's more the silly gambits and sidelines that he teaches like a3 and b3 sicilians. These lines are somewhat playable but they are also not very good. They are basically just meant for bullying lower rated players lol.

I actually didn't know he suggested what I assume you're saying are 3. a3 or 3. b3 but I am certainly not a fan of those as they both seem rather passive for white (like what does a3 hardly accomplish when opponent decides to route knight away?) Your analysis of the Vienna is fair and I play it knowing it's passivity but I like to surprise my opponents with something still solid so that's why I do it.

Chesslover0_0
T3r3nn wrote:

i agree partially with the above comment. Learning tactics is way better for beginners because on the not-so-long run it really pays off well and helps you evolve into knowing when to do what, wich means also knowing how to work with the pieces in the openings, even without really knowing too much about em. But i also think that learning simple openings when being a beginner is good since usually studying it also means studying the effects and causes of doing certain moves, adding some knowledge into openings and also into not doing THRASH moves



Well there are Opening Principles, which are much easier to digest and learn and take alot less time to study, those should be practiced as opposed to wasting time trying to learn the ins and out of any particular Opening.  Research tells us that unless a player hopes to reach expert and above, Opening study will be less useful then focusing on other things such as tactics, and Opening Principles will help one reach a playable middle game. 

SamuelAjedrez95
Ladrithian wrote:

I actually didn't know he suggested what I assume you're saying are 3. a3 or 3. b3 but I am certainly not a fan of those as they both seem rather passive for white (like what does a3 hardly accomplish when opponent decides to route knight away?) Your analysis of the Vienna is fair and I play it knowing it's passivity but I like to surprise my opponents with something still solid so that's why I do it.

His idea with a3 is to play Bc4-Ba2, d3, Nc3, Nge2. It's basically like a Bowdler Attack where the bishop can't be trapped on b3.

Some people want to play a3-b4 which is even worse.

b3 is very passive. It's not automatically losing but black is normally slightly better. Black can play d6-e5 to block the bishop. The idea for white is that they want to play Bb5 and f4 to weaken e5 but the plan just isn't actually that good.

SamuelAjedrez95

The Vienna is solid. It just kind of allows black a free hand with their development and central control. The Vienna Gambit is the most active way to play this, I would say it's basically an improved King's Gambit.

LigdasFanHlektristika

coz they ez to learn and op for that level

aberu19

:/

hermanjohnell

If both players are beginners it doesn´t really matter which opening they play. If a beginner plays against an intermediate (or better) player it doesn´t matter. The important thing is that he beginner plays. A lot. That´s te only way to figure this game out.

SamuelAjedrez95
hermanjohnell wrote:

True, some people say "this opening is too theoretical for beginners". This statement makes zero sense. By definition a theoretical opening is one that is very well analysed and known. So if two people play it who haven't analysed and don't know it so well then it simply can't be too theoretical.

hermanjohnell

I started early and was mavbe six years old when my father learned me the moves and basic rules of the game. Then I played happily along, blissfully unaware that different openings had names. When I was around ten one of my uncles, who played competitive chess, taught me the most common opening lines and their different names. In my teens I started reading chess columns in the newspapers, chess books etc. My point is that when I really became conscious of opening theory I was no longer a beginner.

hermanjohnell
Azurecloudhart skrev:
hermanjohnell wrote:

I started early and was mavbe six years old when my father learned me the moves and basic rules of the game. Then I played happily along, blissfully unaware that different openings had names. When I was around ten one of my uncles, who played competitive chess, taught me the most common opening lines and their different names. In my teens I started reading chess columns in the newspapers, chess books etc. My point is that when I really became conscious of opening theory I was no longer a beginner.

but you started very young. Which it seems players who start young are better off. 

To me, as a kid, chess was just another board game. I played against my dad (when he had the time) and with other kids just for fun. I guess if one starts as an adult it´s easy to be overwhelmed by the complexity but it is what you make it to be. Even adults can play for fun and don´t have to try and immediately grasp the finer nuances of the games played att the GM level.

As golfers use to say: "It´s not your life, it´s not your wife, it´s only a game." So, lighten up and enjoy the fun!

acorn1954

wasn't capablanca  an intuitive chess master not a master on opening theory?

 

BoardMonkey

A six year old played the Petroff against me. I thought it was a beginner opening so I looked it up. Turns out it's not a beginner's opening. I read the Semi-Slav is hard then a streamer on Youtube tells me it's not so hard. I guess you just have to play it and decide for yourself.