Why are the bots easier to beat than real players?

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Avatar of TropicalOP
KingMoored wrote:
TropicalOP wrote:
Playing against bots is fun but it shouldn’t be used as a training tool if you want to play against humans, they play very strange and make moves that humans wouldn’t normally make, and I think the lower rated bots have inflated ratings because of how badly they play.

 

This may have been true in the past but I believe the developers are testing upgrading the chess engine used in the bots. I believe a few weeks ago the bots on the Android app got an upgrade to the new Komodo Monte Carlo engine that favors moves by win probability resulting in a more human positional style of play. You can read about it here ( https://www.chess.com/terms/komodo-chess-engine ) if you're interested.

That's interesting, I wasn't aware of that but thank you for letting me know!

Avatar of KingMoored
speeduptheserver wrote:
KingMoored wrote:
TropicalOP wrote:
Playing against bots is fun but it shouldn’t be used as a training tool if you want to play against humans, they play very strange and make moves that humans wouldn’t normally make, and I think the lower rated bots have inflated ratings because of how badly they play.

 

This may have been true in the past but I believe the developers are testing upgrading the chess engine used in the bots. I believe a few weeks ago the bots on the Android app got an upgrade to the new Komodo Monte Carlo engine that favors moves by win probability resulting in a more human positional style of play. You can read about it here ( https://www.chess.com/terms/komodo-chess-engine ) if you're interested.

Is there somewhere we can actually play these? Otherwise it's just kinda sorta maybe, not "no longer the case".

In the article link it tells you how to play the bots but also you can play opponents with usernames komodo1, komodo2,...komodo35 in unrated Live Chess games which will give you the Man vs. Machine Achievement.

 

 

Avatar of JonThree

My observation on the Nelson bot is that he doesn't really favor the queen.  He uses a couple queen traps during the open, but if you defend them, he turns into a "normal" 1300 bot and often will trade queens if he has the opportunity which is the opposite, IMHO, of what someone that favored the queen would do.

Avatar of Chessboy2009

No psychology is involved.

Avatar of SuperJasonSuper

I am a 1300 rated player and I beat the 2000 bot by making mindless moves that are not blunders, I don't know how

Avatar of ShakenChip

I’m 350 rated and any bot below 1100 is extremely easy.

Avatar of Shizuko
ShakenChip wrote:

I’m 350 rated and any bot below 1100 is extremely easy.

don't necropost lol.

 

 

Avatar of harrytipper3

I've beaten bots up to 2400. So I assume they do have inflated ratings. 

They often play strange moves that I can't understand. I play them for a laugh without taking it seriously as a means to improve my game. 

Avatar of stitchedpeanut

It's difficult to emulate human play. Really, the bots' programming just seems to be a pattern of solid moves interspersed with totally random mistakes, which of course decrease in number as the strength increases. However, this formula means that even the GM bots will make absurd, totally unrealistic errors...

 

Avatar of farahinho

I've been wondering about this for a while because I am only about a 400, but I would say that I beat the 1300 bot about 6 times out of 10. On top of this, when I use my "daily analysis" with the automated coach, I realized that it really doesn't like Danger Levels. Every time I play with this philosophy, it labels my move as a blunder, which is very annoying because I will consistently win by checkmate, and then I'll look at my analysis and I'll have upwards of 5 blunders almost every time. Does anyone else experience this sort of thing?

Avatar of Shizuko
adog32 wrote:

I've been wondering about this for a while because I am only about a 400, but I would say that I beat the 1300 bot about 6 times out of 10. On top of this, when I use my "daily analysis" with the automated coach, I realized that it really doesn't like Danger Levels. Every time I play with this philosophy, it labels my move as a blunder, which is very annoying because I will consistently win by checkmate, and then I'll look at my analysis and I'll have upwards of 5 blunders almost every time. Does anyone else experience this sort of thing?

the necro ;-

Avatar of dannyhume
Humans can use the opening book legally in online games. Therefore a player at any level can play like Komodo for the first 10-15 moves or so.

Also for online slow games, some people spend more time on each move and make very good use of the analyze board (obviously doesn’t apply to blitz or bullet).
Avatar of ChocolateMafia
ThinWhiteDuke85 wrote:

At the weekend I played the notorious Nelson bot (rated 1300) about 10 times.  Most games ended in stalemate or I won (just, but it's a war of attrition), he beat me on 3 occasions. 

I can consistently beat Emir (1000) and fair well against Sven (1100). I can even last 30 odd moves against some of the 2000+ bots. 

But playing real players around my own level seems to be more difficult. 

Is it that the bots are programmed to miss the odd capture which would generally not be missed by a real player (even a lower rated one)?

Or is it that I'm taking more risks playing the bots, perhaps being more aggressive due to 1) No time pressure* 2) No ratings at stake and 3) I know it's not a real person at other end so I care less how the bot might move.

*Despite there being no time pressure against the bots I probably make my moves faster than in normal play. 

What are your experiences of playing the bots compared to real people? 

 

 

 

Yea, the bots self destruct sometimes to balance the ratings, the computer loses only when it chooses to, it's not an achievement. 

Avatar of Mikewrite

The bots seem to play in 'streaks' for me. Either every single piece is protected and untakeable and everything is perfectly woven together. Or they just do the most rediculous blunders. I've even purposely left hanging pieces right next to them for multiple turns, and they refuse to take them. 

Avatar of ThinWhiteDuke85
dannyhume wrote:
Humans can use the opening book legally in online games. Therefore a player at any level can play like Komodo for the first 10-15 moves or so.

Also for online slow games, some people spend more time on each move and make very good use of the analyze board (obviously doesn’t apply to blitz or bullet).

 

Isn't that only for Daily games? I'm not sure you're allowed (or supposed) to use a book move feature or your own personal notes in say a 15/10 rapid. 

 

Avatar of alphaous

They aren't allowed to use opening books in live, no.

Avatar of chessterchief

I think the reason for this is that when a human misses a move, it's because they didn't see it. when and bot misses a move, they saw it and chose not to play it. if ratings are based on accuracy, and accuracy is based on percentage of blunders and good moves, then a bot is going to miss moves no player ever would, like a bishop a square from their queen. but it is no less likely to spot a bishop across the board. (just an example). 

Avatar of ImandiKavithya

I'm only rated 400 and I just beat EmirBOT (1000) and SvenBOT (1100) and I didnt even get any hints or takebacks (challenge mode) so I also agree that bots make very un human moves, nobody would do in real life, i tried playing humans and i LOST EVERY SINGLE GAME (they were all below 1000) i blew my whole rating just from that..!

 

Avatar of ImandiKavithya
chessterchief wrote:

I think the reason for this is that when a human misses a move, it's because they didn't see it. when and bot misses a move, they saw it and chose not to play it. if ratings are based on accuracy, and accuracy is based on percentage of blunders and good moves, then a bot is going to miss moves no player ever would, like a bishop a square from their queen. but it is no less likely to spot a bishop across the board. (just an example).  very true, i agree on this too

 

Avatar of mishailu

As in my opinion, playing with players under 1110 rating is one's piece of cake. Playing with bots above this rating feels like playing with real humans. After all, these bots are trained to make mistakes or errors through professional programming. This creates differences between the ratings of bots and how often they win. This is the mutual advantage for beginners as they can play low level bots (250, 400), intermediate players can challenge medium level bots (1000, 1200) while advanced players can play with high level bots (any rating above 2000).