20-move forcing variation

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draconlord

The following game was an especially... interesting one. From move 30 to 50, it seems that all but one of my moves were forced(the remaining move was a stupid blunder), despite a significant material advantage until near the end. In the end, he offered a draw and I accepted, since the "safe" king move lets him get a perpetual draw, and every other move seems to lose the game for me. Please tell me if there's any winning variation for white that I missed, or if either side could have won after move 43. 

KyleMayhugh

If I'm white, I probably make you play on. Black will have a hard time keeping the pawn from promoting.

 

44. ... Qg3 looks like a big improvement for black, threatening Qh3#. White must respond with R(either)c3 is the only way to stop mate, and then g8=Q. I don't have a board to check that out, but I think that might force a win. (Wait, maybe Qg3 Nf2, Qf3+ Kh5, Qxf2+ I think still wins eventually for black).  I could be wildly wrong on this line, though.

pattrik

Many of these moves are forced, but not all of them.

Bugnado

White wins.
draconlord

jhb-> First of all, I appreciate your willingness to analyze your variation 18 moves deep. However, as much as I would appreciate an easy win,

After Ke4, doesn't he have the obvious Qh4+    ?

draconlord

Kyle->Yeah, I should have played it out, I guess. But I couldn't see any move other than 51. Ke4 that wouldn't lose in the long-term, and after 51. Ke4, it just becomes perpetual check. Still...

 

As for 44...Qg3 for black, I think I've analyzed that move for him before...

PLEASE START AT 44. (Not sure how to edit that)

Black has better chances, but in the end, it still sputters to a draw. (Though my analysis could be very much wrong)

pattrick-> Care to suggest better moves? I really didn't like this ending, so if I could prevent it in the future, that would be awesome.

 

Also, pointing out inaccuracies earlier in the game that led to this position would be awesome. 

 

Thanks so much anyway!

computerrat

i dont think it would really matter... white can just march his king over to his pawn and black can't really do much after the king gets there

draconlord

pardon?

KyleMayhugh

In that line, try 47. ... Qg2 for black.  Then, if d8=Q, black has Qxh8+, which forces Nh7, Qxh7+ and now black is playing a tricky but winnable QPP vs QP endgame.

If 47. Qg2 Rh4, then white wins the pawn with Qd5 (the only move that temporarily saves the pawn is Ne5, but then Qd1+  forces the knight back to let the queen gobble the pawn, or else Rg4, which puts white more or less in zugzwang while black's king goes over to blockade the pawn).

If 47. Qg2 Rh7, then 48. Qe5 Nd5 49. Qxd5 e8=Q 50. Qxh7+ and we've got our QPP vs. QP endgame again. (If 49. ... Qxd5 50. Rd2 to protect the pawn, then Qe3 wins)

Edited to fix a pawn going backwards in one line :)

The key thought here is that in some lines, black can afford to let white queen as long as he grabs everything else on the way or threatens mate.

Bugnado

Yes, he does have Qh4+ but that won't help him because after Kd3 there are no more checks.

DoctorFuu

Mmmmh, 24.Rc1 !? does not seem very good to me. I would have prefered 21.Qa4 to connect the rooks, activate the queen, and firing the black's queen at a difficult position to protect the c5 pawn (as white is threatening to exchange the queens and just winning the game).

26.Nxe5 seems strange to me. Right your are winning a pawn. however you already have a decisive material advantage here. You should focus on wiping out black's initiative, and this can certainly not be done by unleashing his dark-squared bishop so that he may show a great activity on the a and b files to help promoting his pawns. I would have prefered here something like 26.Nd6 Qxx 27.Ne4!, fixing the central pawn, keeping your knight onto an active square in the center, still blockading a pawn, and freeing the c-file to pile up and put pressure onto the isolated c-pawn. As well, the black's bishop won't have access to the diagonal and does not prevent defensive moves such as Ra1 or stuff like that. Black woulkd certainly redirect his bishop via Bf8-e7-d8 to the queenside, however after Bf8 your knight supports the e6 advance, shutting down black's bishop out of the game and advancing in the center to let your pieces show their strengh.

30.Qxa8?!

Still, winning material and letting black consolidate his position instead of just playing powerful moves. you have the time to take the rook, so just improve your pieces location. Moves like 30.h5! (threatening a mating net after 31.h6) or 30.Rf1 (threatening to remove the only effective defensor of black's king) seemed just brutal, when black has to address the threats, and have not the luxury of protecting his a8 rook.

As an example of variation, I see 30.h5! Ra7 (to defend the f7 focal point) 31.h6+! Kh8 32.Ng6+ hxg6 33.Bd4+ winning the queen for two pieces with black's pieces not coordinated and a king under strong pressure. This is much stronger than Qxa8 when your pieces are not coordinated and black pieces are still having an influence in the center.

32.d7? missing the opportunity of bringing the queen to the c3 square (via 32.Qc2 or 32.Qd2) where it both threatens to exchange queens and kill black's play and a discover winning attack onto the black's king. Improving your pieces positions again and again and again!

33.Qc2 to improve white's queen activity seemed better to me.

35.Qxg3 1-0 since black has no mating threat anymore. As well the pawn was not taken with the king in the next moves.

50.Kf4 1/2 1/2 ??

I'm sure you could have won by simply bringing you king close to your queening pawn, and just queen it. Black had still to prove that it was a draw, his position was much more difficult than yours, therefore giving him the draw was a blunder in my opinion. I would go for 50.Ke5 to force the queening. Note that black cannot afford any king move to prevent the white king from penetrating since white could just queen his pawn instantly. As well, 50.Ke5 Qg2+ 51.Ke6 Qd2 52.Nd5! seems winning. White is almost out of checks, the white king is close to the queening square and black can't control the queening square.

And actually: 49.Ke4 Qh4+? 50.Kd3 1-0

White is out of check and there is no way for black to prevent 51.d8=Q

Well, your game was far from being forced. It was a very interesting game where positionnal play had a great importance, and therefore both sides had plenty of plans to go after. As white you missed a lot of opportunities to win the game, and it seems to me that you accept a draw in a won position, which is a blunder in my point of view.

draconlord

Doigetfru->>Thanks a lot. After spending an hour going over all the possible variations, I agree with all of your points.

DoctorFuu

I tried to give ideas everytime I dismissed a move played in the game, and tried to calculate thoroughly to be sure that the moves I propose are really better, however I did not an exhaustive analysis, so I'm happy to hear that you found no flaw :). Of course there were plenty of other options that may be way better that what I propose. There are also a lot of things that I may have missed in your game.

Happy that it helped :) I learnt a few things as well when analyzing your game.

crystalclear

Please tell me if there's any winning variation for white that I missed, or if either side could have won after move 43.

 

44. Rc5-c4 is mate in 16 for white.

Blackadder

eddysallin

Qb2 might be help-ful.....?

eddysallin
eddysallin wrote:

Qb2 might be help-ful.....? sorry, instead of kh1(35)maybe Qb2 is of some help.. KING TO F/G8 bring white rooks into play---C8  CHECK!! this is a winning line. so black cannot move the king out of disc.+ but has too attack the Queen by either Qd4 or Qf6 BOTH ALLOW WHITE TOO QUEEN,pd8, and now black playing QXQP , white forces king onto 8th rank ,pins black Queen to the king w/ rook to c8 !!


waffllemaster

Almost none of that was forced.  You even admit to unforced moves in your own annotations Tongue out

draconlord

o.O. It's been months since I posted this puzzle!

Thank you guys so much for the help。

 

After resigning two games in a row(which my opponent kindly pointed out are perpetual check positions)I'm gonna repeat my vow to fight to the finish from now on. Seriously this time. Really.