this is the starting position i reached in a game, i am white. Although i know rook endgame techniques pretty well like lucena & philodor position, long side check, back rank defense, rook pawn & rook end games, vancura position ...... but sometimes things get dumber because of short time and messing up. in this position that happened to me, i messed up on drawing chances for short time. May be i should have forced a vancura position and/or keeping my king at g2 or h2 i should have created a position to give side check by my rook and when king go far i should have placed my rook behind his passed pawn or keep the pawn in check....But I let it go. So what ways you think i had a draw ?
complex rook end games
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May 2, 2017
0
#2
Hi. 20. Ra6? Better Rb7+ and then go back behind pawn and keep his king in bad position.
Play games with at least +5 or +10 +15 increament, so no time trouble.
hm need to analyze but was my approach to go for this position right man? may be side check was better as i said. It's indeed a complex rook endgame position from where you need to transpose known endgame technique like vancura position... and i found almost similar example in dvoretsky endgame manual book.
May 15, 2017
0
#4
The only drawing plan for Black was to get the K over as quickly as possible. Therefore, move 3.Rf8? was a losing move. You had to play 3.Kd2!
But then, Black missed the key move, 3...a3! 4...Rb4! was good, forcing you to find the only defensive resource, to check from the front with Rf1!
You missed that, and Black had a fairly straight-forward path to victory with a3! But instead, he got cute and played Kb2 first.
And so on.
In other words, there were many mistakes for both sides that changed the evaluation of the game.
This is a really interesting, educational endgame. The R vs RP ending that arose is considered one of the basic endgames to study. It's well worth taking the time to work out all the mistakes and why they're mistakes.
Thanks man for replies, the more we dig in the analysis the more we learn. Yes 3.kd2 and 5.Rf1 was a saving move!
May 15, 2017
0
#6
Ghost, while that's a great resource, it's better to look up the R+RP vs R endgames in a book. Humans have a difficult time learning from tablebases. Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual has some interesting analysis, as does Lamprecht and Muller's Fundamental Chess Endings.
The tablebase won't tell you which moves are the best try at a winning in a drawn position. It will only tell you the most efficient choices and which moves draw with best play from both sides. Of course, that's incredibly important, but it's not enough for someone trying to learn how to play the position.
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@IM not sure if ke5 is favorable for black, and later look like for time trouble i missed 3.kd2.
pfren wrote:
Black's very first move throws away the win. Why not 1...Ke5? The d-pawn won't go very far, and Black being two juicy pawns up has a very easy win at hand...
After letting you pick the f5 pawn, you could (and should!) move your king towards the queenside as fast as possible, and the draw would be rather easy to achieve.
Great advice IM pfren but most players you need to spoon feed them. The op claim he knows vancura position but if he did he would been able to draw this position. He had many opportunities to draw but keep missing his chances. Any player who understand this position knows the king is key to drawing this position and where to place your rook; vancura position was not needed in this position but bring the king closer to the queenside was essential!
May 17, 2017
0
#11
Pfren's right, the starting position is quite easy. Tho I'd start with Re4+. If White moves the K to the d-file, the win is trivially easy using the Lucena method to win with the f-pawn. If White goes to the f-file, Black just takes the pawn anyway.
But I was more interested in the R+P vs R ending. I found that bit fascinating to study and may use some of those positions with my students in the future.
Here's an example:
There's one minor trick White can play for after 1....Re4+ 2.Kd3 Ke5.
3.Kc3! hoping for 3.Rd4? Rxf5+! But Black has several ways to win. I'd just play 3...f4 and watch as White runs out of moves.
IM pfren, did not mention 1...Re4+ but Ke5. 1...Re4+ does win because of f5-pawn
May 17, 2017
0
#13
Yuree, you may want to study that endgame a bit. I'm pretty sure Pfren's right, Black should win pretty easily if he keeps the f-pawn. Take another look.
Too bad is not two rook pawns, then the op is correct about vancura position. 
May 17, 2017
0
#15
yureesystem wrote:
Too bad is not two rook pawns, then the op is correct about vancura position.
The Vancura position only works when the side with the extra rook pawn has his rook in front of the pawn. I don't see how that's applicable here.
The Botvinnik-Fischer endgame showed that a and h pawns are sometimes not enough to win. But that's a completely different endgame from what we have here, and is covered well in several endgame books. I'd have to double check, but I think Keres, Muller, and Dvoretsky all covered that particular endgame and showed when the two rook pawns draw, and when they win.
SmyslovFan wrote:
yureesystem wrote:
Too bad is not two rook pawns, then the op is correct about vancura position.
The Vancura position only works when the side with the extra rook pawn has his rook in front of the pawn. I don't see how that's applicable here.
The Botvinnik-Fischer endgame showed that a and h pawns are sometimes not enough to win. But that's a completely different endgame from what we have here, and is covered well in several endgame books. I'd have to double check, but I think Keres, Muller, and Dvoretsky all covered that particular endgame and showed when the two rook pawns draw, and when they win.
For your name sake, even Smyslov great endgame skill could not win in this famous rook and pawns.
Since the op knows the vancura position I withhold analysis, but the final position obvious a draw.