Followed opening principles, still lost, unsure what I did wrong.

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Avatar of mariners234
HolyCrusader5 wrote:

It would have been the modern defense until it transposed into the Pirc, but they both played offbeat lines.

1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 is offbeat, OP's opening is just junk so it's not a line of anything and it doesn't have a name.

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'll stop talking about it now.

Avatar of Ziryab

What players rated 1000 call "condescending" may simply be explanations of things that you do not yet regard as important. The first few posts helped the OP a little, then two titled players stepped in and offered some things we all should consider.

Many years ago, before computers tried to assert authority in naming openings, there were many who learned ECO codes. I was fond of playing the Black side of 1.e4 e6 2.d4 c5 3.Nf3 cxd4 because the codes jumped from vol. C to vol. A to vol. B.  The opening names after each move changed, too, from the French to the Benoni to the Sicilian.

My point: the opening is not set in stone after the first, second, or third move. There are lots of possible transpositions.

I've played against a lot of Modern, Pirc, and KID structures. I'm pretty sure that I've seen h6 at least once before, but it's not part of an orthodox main line in any of these, AFAIK.

 

 

Avatar of Optimissed

I think an early h6 is bad because it tells white something. Either black is going to play 0-0-0 or g6 is going to be very vulnerable and white's bishop belongs on d3, pointing at the weakness. I think white would also like to play f4 and maybe not c4.

Avatar of FforEffort
mariners234 wrote:
HolyCrusader5 wrote:

It would have been the modern defense until it transposed into the Pirc, but they both played offbeat lines.

1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 is offbeat, OP's opening is just junk so it's not a line of anything and it doesn't have a name.

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'll stop talking about it now.

 

It's okay. Honestly I don't understand most of what is being talked about now.

 

The key things I'm taking away from this thread are:

- Opening principles are not a rigid  set of move-by-move instructions. (The next step is figuring out how to adapt them to different situations)

- When an underdeveloped is forming a strong defensive position, use pawns to disrupt their formation. (Even if it doesn't mean an immediate gain within 1 or 2 moves)

Please let me know if this is *not* what I should be taking away.

Avatar of mariners234
FforEffort wrote:
mariners234 wrote:
HolyCrusader5 wrote:

It would have been the modern defense until it transposed into the Pirc, but they both played offbeat lines.

1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 is offbeat, OP's opening is just junk so it's not a line of anything and it doesn't have a name.

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'll stop talking about it now.

 

It's okay. Honestly I don't understand most of what is being talked about now.

 

The key things I'm taking away from this thread are:

- Opening principles are not a rigid  set of move-by-move instructions. (The next step is figuring out how to adapt them to different situations)

- When an underdeveloped is forming a strong defensive position, use pawns to disrupt their formation. (Even if it doesn't mean an immediate gain within 1 or 2 moves)

Please let me know if this is *not* what I should be taking away.

Sounds good.

Avatar of mariners234

And like I said earlier (I think I said it anyway) chess is a tough game, and even GMs fail to punish quirky openings, so don't be too hard on yourself if something crazy beats you... especially in speed games I've lost to all sorts of crap haha tongue.png

Avatar of greedygavin

I think every beginner chess player (which includes myself!) should take a look at this game

Anyways, you did follow the opening principles. That's great, but it doesn't guarantee you a win. The problem is you did nothing to take advantage of the fact that you followed them and your opponent didn't. It seems that you were almost scared to open up the position with moves such as f4. Others have suggested better moves for you so I won't get any more technical. Your problem seems to be more psychological, you followed the opening principles and your opponent didn't so you just sat around waiting for a win to appear, you need to punish them with the hammer.

Avatar of nartreb
FforEffort escreveu:
mariners234 wrote:
HolyCrusader5 wrote:

It would have been the modern defense until it transposed into the Pirc, but they both played offbeat lines.

1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 is offbeat, OP's opening is just junk so it's not a line of anything and it doesn't have a name.

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'll stop talking about it now.

 

It's okay. Honestly I don't understand most of what is being talked about now.

 

The key things I'm taking away from this thread are:

- Opening principles are not a rigid  set of move-by-move instructions. (The next step is figuring out how to adapt them to different situations)

- When an underdeveloped is forming a strong defensive position, use pawns to disrupt their formation. (Even if it doesn't mean an immediate gain within 1 or 2 moves)

Please let me know if this is *not* what I should be taking away.

 

 

that's not a bad start.  You'll find that "use pawns to disrupt their formation" isn't always simple, and it's not the only strategy that works.

The general idea is to "open" the position (usually the center, where the enemy king is), so your pieces (rooks, queen, bishops) can reach the enemy.  In other words, get the pawns (both his and yours) out of your way before the opponent has time to castle.  The obvious way to do this -without sacrificing a lot of material- is to push your center pawn(s) so either the opponent takes them, or they take something (thus moving diagonally, off their original file).  

Typically, your opponent will try to form a diagonal pawn chain so his pawns defend each other.  He'll try to do it in such a way that your pawns are blocked, each directly in front of one of his pawns, with nothing to attack diagonally.  That's why it's important, if you're planning a "pawn break", to do it quickly after the opening, while you can.

 

Avatar of Optimissed

<<When an underdeveloped is forming a strong defensive position, use pawns to disrupt their formation. (Even if it doesn't mean an immediate gain within 1 or 2 moves)>>

Or pieces.

Avatar of Laskersnephew

<<When an underdeveloped is forming a strong defensive position, use pawns to disrupt their formation. (Even if it doesn't mean an immediate gain within 1 or 2 moves)>>

Following opening principles got you a big advantage in development and king safety. Good job! But these are temporary advantages! If you do nothing, your opponent will develop hi pieces, castle, and your advantage will have melted away.

Here's a question: You have much better development than your opponent and his king is in the center while yours is safely castled. What do you think is the logical thing to do?  

Avatar of HolyCrusader5

I doubt he would be able to convert that sac for an advantage if black defends well. However, I doubt that the black player would be able to even put up resistance at all (though the same applies with the OP)

Avatar of HolyCrusader5

White has such a major development advantage that the sack leaves white a major advantage, though it may not be the best line.

Avatar of HolyCrusader5

I would say white is up around 3 pawns in positional advantage

Avatar of drmrboss
Opening principles works for beginners with rating <1000 only. You can learn opening priniciple in a few months but that wont work against people beyond beginners.
 
 
Here is an example that follows opening prinicples. After 6 moves, what to do next for white? What to do next for black?
 

 

From 1000 to 2000, you need to work understanding chess positions with books, videol or work on your research.
 

For me, I follow the priciple of this one. It really works well against opponents around my level. 

Avatar of HolyCrusader5
infidel-catto wrote:

White played Qd3. after d6, do have an alternative to Nxf7?

No but I am saying that Qd3 is not the best move

Avatar of HolyCrusader5

Qd3 followed by Nxf7 is still a strong and aggressive line; I would choose white anytime.

Avatar of HolyCrusader5

I would rather play f4 or Qd2 to begin an attack on the center. I would try to open the f-file as quickly as possible to create a battering ram

Avatar of Optimissed

If Nxf7 worked, that would have already been pointed out.

Avatar of HolyCrusader5

It apparently creates attacking chances, and I personally think it is slightly better for white. I prefer f4 instead of Qd3 however.

Avatar of Ziryab
Optimissed wrote:

If Nxf7 worked, that would have already been pointed out.

 

I think it's been mentioned. I know that I mentioned it. However, I find it an engine-type line where White has initiative and the engine says White is better, but the moves that White must play require some precision.