Is this position drawn? - Chess Forums

Dsmith42

Jul 17, 2018

0

#1

Tournament game from this past weekend, actually resulted in a draw. White (me) to move. I've just traded off a bishop for black's a-pawn, and while I wrote down 1. g4, I actually played Ke3 instead (which was intended as a follow-up move when the d-pawn was actually under threat).

A friend (who is an Expert) looking over the board thought I was lost, but I think I have a win somewhere in here, since I can force a passed pawn on the h-file. In the actual game, I forced the black pawns off, but he had just enough tempo to stop both the d- and h-pawns which remained.

So two questions - is there a way to force a pawn through? If not, can black defend in such a way as to keep a pawn on the board for himself? It wouldn't surprise me if both of us missed a win at certain points in this endgame, but I thought I was in a better position to win when I gave the bishop up.

notmtwain

Jul 17, 2018

0

#2

Dsmith42 wrote:

Tournament game from this past weekend, actually resulted in a draw. White (me) to move. I've just traded off a bishop for black's a-pawn, and while I wrote down 1. g4, I actually played Ke3 instead (which was intended as a follow-up move when the d-pawn was actually under threat).

A friend (who is an Expert) looking over the board thought I was lost, but I think I have a win somewhere in here, since I can force a passed pawn on the h-file. In the actual game, I forced the black pawns off, but he had just enough tempo to stop both the d- and h-pawns which remained.

So two questions - is there a way to force a pawn through? If not, can black defend in such a way as to keep a pawn on the board for himself? It wouldn't surprise me if both of us missed a win at certain points in this endgame, but I thought I was in a better position to win when I gave the bishop up.

I think black should win. I tried it and was able to blockade the d pawn with the king and keep one pawn with the knight.

Dsmith42

Jul 17, 2018

0

#3

1. g4 Kd5 2. Kd3 fights a lot better than 2. Ke3, but you may be on the right track there...

FM TitanChess666

Jul 18, 2018

0

#4

F5 was pointless, I think it's drawn

notmtwain

Jul 18, 2018

0

#5

TitanChess666 wrote:

F5 was pointless, I think it's drawn

The tablebase disagrees. F5 is indeed pointless but if you play it out on the analysis board, it is hard to find better. All moves weaken white's position.

Clavius

Jul 18, 2018

0

#6

Black wins comfortably.

JamieDelarosa

Jul 18, 2018

0

#7

3.f5 is a mistake in the Clavius line. Try 3.h5, followed by g5. White can hold a draw.

Dsmith42

Jul 19, 2018

0

#8

Thanks, everyone, for the input. In the actual game, my opponent never played Kd5 for fear of pulling his king away from the h-pawn, and the actual continuation was the sequence above.

It seems like h5 before f5 or g5 is essential (as I thought it was at the time), but as you can see here because black has the opposition, I couldn't push the h-pawn through, and I couldn't kick the knight coming to g6 with my king. Black had just enough resources to hold.

If black has a win (and he seems to), Kd5 appears to be essential to it. If the white king gets to e4 as I did, both black pawns have to come off, and white is drawn at worst), but in an actual game (and black was under some time pressure), it's hard to fight the instinct to bring the knight back into the action immediately.

Clavius

Jul 20, 2018

0

#9

Looking at the ideas from DSmith in the top diagram and JamieDelarosa in the bottom. Black still wins except after the blunder in the actual game of 5...fxg5

Dsmith42

Jul 20, 2018

0

#10

After 5. ..Ne7 6. gxf6 gxf6 7. f5 Ng8 (only move to stop the h-pawn) 8. Ke3 looks better than h6, though I think black still wins. Thanks!

Lyudmil_Tsvetkov

Jul 20, 2018

0

#11

Indeed, knight = 3.5 points; 2 pawns = 2 points.

Much better for black.

A common misconception is pawns get stronger in the endgame.

Usually, this is not so, a piece is always a piece.

Quality pawns - advanced, connected - do matter.

Lyudmil_Tsvetkov

Jul 21, 2018

0

#12

Many GMs have it too.

My eyes opened only after I have been watching a large number of top engine games.

3 pawns vs minor is mostly draw or even the pawn side has slight edge, but minor plus 3 pawns vs 2 minors already favours the 2 minors side, generally.

The trend is amplified the bigger the number of pieces.

So, even in the very late endgame pawns are generally weak.

Advanced pawns are strong, but that is a different thing.

m_connors

Jul 25, 2018

0

#13

As either White or Black, I'd be happy with a Draw. At the point shown, Black has slight advantage. Played it in Stockfish and White cannot win. If played perfectly looks like a win for Black.

Clavius

Jul 25, 2018

0

#14

Just look at my diagrams above. Black is winning this ending almost effortlessly.

marvin-040483

Jul 26, 2018

0

#15

I asked my dog, my dog said that it was a draw,