Is white able to draw this game?

rocco_a
Is white able to draw this game?
you are welcome to use any engine (I did not find one that solves this puzzle).
In fact a friend claims white can force this to a draw.

rocco_a

It's white move! happy.png

TrainerMeow

Tip: For spoilers, paste the FEN into your Google search bar.

rocco_a

well, the spoiler does not actually explain why. it only tells you what the best move is.
Anyone able to solve it?

ShehnazPunai

I dont think it's a draw if the opponent plays correctly. At first move, white plays Ng7+, so the king can only move to g5. now Nf3+ is the only best move from white. the game could be winning for white if the king moved to f6 or g6 or draw if it moved to f4. But when the king moves to g4, it would be winning for black. so I dont think there is a forced draw available for white, It's just my opinion though.

JamesColeman

I had a look at it with the help of an engine. It's drawn. You play 1.Kc6! (this is the only move). After 1...g1=Q 2.Nxh4! (the knight obviously can't be captured due to the fork). Then the basic idea is that on the next move you play Nh4-f3 - completely trapping the Black king where it is, and the knights defending each other. The Black queen on its own can't make progress and so it's drawn. 

 

Why does it have to be 1.Kc6 and nothing else? The knights are needed where they are, waiting for Black to queen, and after some other king move, let's say Kd6, the same idea doesn't work as after 1.Kd6 g1=Q 2.Nxh4 Black will have an intermediate check on b6 with the queen before capturing the knight, thereby avoiding the fork. Same problem after 1.Ke6, intermediate check on g8.

 

So 1.Kc6 is the only move that allows the desired set-up and doesn't allow a winning intermezzo (in fact the purpose of the black pawn on c4 is to 'hide' the white K from ...Qc1+ etc).

Aida_Amin

Let the computer analyze it! Simple!

EnergeticHay
JamesColeman wrote:

I had a look at it with the help of an engine. It's drawn. You play 1.Kc6! (this is the only move). After 1...g1=Q 2.Nxh4! (the knight obviously can't be captured due to the fork). Then the basic idea is that on the next move you play Nh4-f3 - completely trapping the Black king where it is, and the knights defending each other. The Black queen on its own can't make progress and so it's drawn. 

 

Why does it have to be 1.Kc6 and nothing else? The knights are needed where they are, waiting for Black to queen, and after some other king move, let's say Kd6, the same idea doesn't work as after 1.Kd6 g1=Q 2.Nxh4 Black will have an intermediate check on b6 with the queen before capturing the knight, thereby avoiding the fork. Same problem after 1.Ke6, intermediate check on g8.

 

So 1.Kc6 is the only move that allows the desired set-up and doesn't allow a winning intermezzo (in fact the purpose of the black pawn on c4 is to 'hide' the white K from ...Qc1+ etc.

Oh wow, that's a genius solution!!! happy.png

Aida_Amin
EnergeticHay wrote:
JamesColeman wrote:

I had a look at it with the help of an engine. It's drawn. You play 1.Kc6! (this is the only move). After 1...g1=Q 2.Nxh4! (the knight obviously can't be captured due to the fork). Then the basic idea is that on the next move you play Nh4-f3 - completely trapping the Black king where it is, and the knights defending each other. The Black queen on its own can't make progress and so it's drawn. 

 

Why does it have to be 1.Kc6 and nothing else? The knights are needed where they are, waiting for Black to queen, and after some other king move, let's say Kd6, the same idea doesn't work as after 1.Kd6 g1=Q 2.Nxh4 Black will have an intermediate check on b6 with the queen before capturing the knight, thereby avoiding the fork. Same problem after 1.Ke6, intermediate check on g8.

 

So 1.Kc6 is the only move that allows the desired set-up and doesn't allow a winning intermezzo (in fact the purpose of the black pawn on c4 is to 'hide' the white K from ...Qc1+ etc.

Oh wow, that's a genius solution!!!

Agreed. Also I can't believe he took the time to write that.....

But great analysis!! thumbup.png

ScubaSteve3141

Go chess

shaurya_chess

We have to do draw in How many moves 

rocco_a
shaurya_chess ha scritto:

We have to do draw in How many moves 

basically there is only one move allowing white to draw. (King c6).

The whole idea is to disregard the promotion and trap the black king with a fortress (2 knights watching each other) and blocking the black king on h4.

The line goes Kc6 g1Q Nxh4
now, if Kxh4, then Nf3 forks King and Queen. If any other move the knight can retreat to h4, creating the fortress.
At this point, no matter what the black tries, the king is trapped, the queen alone is unable to checkmate the white king. Any attempt to break the fortress results in losing the queen.

rocco_a
JamesColeman ha scritto:

I had a look at it with the help of an engine. It's drawn. You play 1.Kc6! (this is the only move). After 1...g1=Q 2.Nxh4! (the knight obviously can't be captured due to the fork). Then the basic idea is that on the next move you play Nh4-f3 - completely trapping the Black king where it is, and the knights defending each other. The Black queen on its own can't make progress and so it's drawn. 

 

Why does it have to be 1.Kc6 and nothing else? The knights are needed where they are, waiting for Black to queen, and after some other king move, let's say Kd6, the same idea doesn't work as after 1.Kd6 g1=Q 2.Nxh4 Black will have an intermediate check on b6 with the queen before capturing the knight, thereby avoiding the fork. Same problem after 1.Ke6, intermediate check on g8.

 

So 1.Kc6 is the only move that allows the desired set-up and doesn't allow a winning intermezzo (in fact the purpose of the black pawn on c4 is to 'hide' the white K from ...Qc1+ etc).

 

Thanks for the analysis!

rocco_a
ShehnazPunai ha scritto:

I dont think it's a draw if the opponent plays correctly. At first move, white plays Ng7+, so the king can only move to g5. now Nf3+ is the only best move from white. the game could be winning for white if the king moved to f6 or g6 or draw if it moved to f4. But when the king moves to g4, it would be winning for black. so I dont think there is a forced draw available for white, It's just my opinion though.

wrong answer.
if white plays Kc6, black can only draw (or blunder and lose the game).
Read the other answer and you'll see how nicely placed knights can trap the King, watch each other and the other pawn and make the black, lonely queen useless.

rocco_a
Aida_Amin ha scritto:

Let the computer analyze it! Simple!

not all engines are able to solve it. 
Btw, did you get the whole point?

Aida_Amin
rocco_a wrote:
Aida_Amin ha scritto:

Let the computer analyze it! Simple!

not all engines are able to solve it. 
Btw, did you get the whole point?

Now I did...