KID as Black.

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ChessOfPlayer

Just a Kid game I played today as black.  I don't play this opening often at all.  I am just focusing in on the different middle game plans.  Comments appreciated.

Strangemover

I'm no expert on this but I like Ne8 better because it covers c7 which can be threatened by white's queenside counterplay. On h5 it seems to get in the way a bit. You were concerned about your light squared bishop being shut in but the dream scenario is to only touch it when you sac it on h3 a few moves before giving mate I think.

ChessOfPlayer

Thanks for the advice fischer and strangemover.  I will get to it tomorrow.

ModestAndPolite

White misplaced his BIshop on d3.  In this line it belongs on e2. Also White did not seem to know why h3 is played.  The ideas are some combination of:

1) playing Be3 is without  the Bishop being harried by Ng4

2) playing Bg5 to further hamper Black's development

3) playing g4 to pre-empt any attempt by Black to attack o the K-side, and create long term possibilities of attacking on the K-side himself

 

Black played completely into Black's hands by:

1)  Exchanging off Black's "Bad" bishop

2) Allowing the strong pawns at e5 and f5

3) Overlooking one-move tactical threats

It is hard to believe White's rating of 2075, unless this was a Blitz game at a very fast time limit.

ChessOfPlayer
Rob3rtJamesFischer wrote:

Great to see you are learning from the masters of masters, Fischer.

To be honest with you I am still doing my homework on the Classical Mainlines tho hopefully today I will start analyzing the Petrosian System.

 

White played the h3 line which up to what I know is an agressive one, White will try to attack on the kingside. Seeming how the game went this looks more like a Petrosian System.

 

Ne8 followed by f5 is a logical approach but I would be more interested in a5 (very, very typical KID move in this positions to avoid b4) followed by Nc5 (Probably starting with Nc5 is also OK). This approach is more flexible and common in this kind of structures. For example, in your line with 8...Nc5 9.Bc2 I think 9...a5 was the move not Ne8. (Taking a look at the databases indeed after 7.d5 a5 is the most played move.)

Thanks for that suggestion.  I was however considering it.  I decided not to play it because I though it was too slow.  Though I guess it is a nice prophalctic move (indicates Petrosian lol).  I will try to remember it for next time.

 

Regarding which move to choose (Ne8 or Nh5). That one is an interesting question.

In the Bayonet Attack Black plays Nh5 as the knight on f3 blocks the bishop's attack on h5 with the idea of playing Nf4 trying to get White's bishop on e2, not fearing the capture on f4 as that would open the bishop and remind White that b4 weakened c3.

Yeah.  Nh5 to maybe f4 does seem like a good idea.  Especially if white is happy with b4.

 

Anyways in your game Black was already equal due to White misplaying the opening.

Yes.  White probably didn't play his best in the opening.

I also have another question. Why do you invite the dark square bishops exchange with Bf6? Something like Ndf6 followed by f4 should be way better for Black. Exchanging bishops makes life easier for White, b4 weakened the long diagonal, you have pressure on the center and if White releases it with gxf5 he will need to cope with your monster bishop (you would be threatening some tactics related with the hanging knight on c3.) so there is no need to exchange your main defender on the king and a piece with a lot of potential. Way better would have been Ndf6! (probably most accurate as your queen can now move to the kingside without worrying about Nb5 attacking your d6-c7 pawns, in the other hand Nef6 and if your queen moves Nb5 would be annoying and dangerous specially if White gets in c5-Rc1.)

 Yeah.  That was one of the biggest takeways from this game.  I was too focused on the f and g pawn tention and did not consider pushing f4.  I even though that is a common move played in fischers games!  I was blinded with a possible capture or something.  Playing Ndf6 also unmasks my lsb and solves some coordination issues to boot!

Anyways, great game I stopped seriously analyzing after you forked a piece lol.

Thanks.  Yes, they were a few lines in that tactical sequence.  White did not have to allow it of course.

In conclusion, you are missing some things on positional play (perhaps Bf6 could be considered a positional mistake?) and typical plans in this KID structures but you saidyou dont play it often so I would not blame you.

For sure.  Especially the Bf6 move as a positional mistake for more than one reason.

 

Perhaps you may want to do your homework too, at the end of the day I am no KID teacher.

 Yeah.  This was a good lesson.  And Bobby, you are way to modest.  WC and still you are not qualified to teach?

ChessOfPlayer
Strangemover wrote:

I'm no expert on this but I like Ne8 better because it covers c7 which can be threatened by white's queenside counterplay.  (Yes.  That was a noted perk of Ne8) On h5 it seems to get in the way a bit. You were concerned about your light squared bishop being shut in but the dream scenario is to only touch it when you sac it on h3 a few moves before giving mate I think.

Yes.  Sacing it on h3 is very thematic to my little understanding.  In in a way, it probably is it's only future for the middle game.  Prehaps I was to worried about the block.  Thanks I will take note

ChessOfPlayer
ModestAndPolite wrote:

White misplaced his BIshop on d3.  In this line it belongs on e2.  (Yeah.  I see that now) Also White did not seem to know why h3 is played.  (honestly I was confused about that too but I guess he wants nothing to dao with a pin or in the very long term, my h pawn running up the board)  The ideas are some combination of:

1) playing Be3 is without  the Bishop being harried by Ng4

2) playing Bg5 to further hamper Black's development

3) playing g4 to pre-empt any attempt by Black to attack o the K-side, and create long term possibilities of attacking on the K-side himself

Thanks for an insight to whites ideas.

 

Black (You mean white?) played completely into Black's hands by:

1)  Exchanging off Black's "Bad" bishop

2) Allowing the strong pawns at e5 and f5

3) Overlooking one-move tactical threats (that was in the end, when time was a factor)

It is hard to believe White's rating of 2075, unless this was a Blitz game at a very fast time limit.

Thanks for pointing out white's mistakes and giving me some insight to his ideas.  Also, White's rating was 1846 and mine 2075.  The time control was 15/5.  Though lichess ratings a bit inflated.  Especially at the lesser ends of the bell curve for whatever reasons :)

ChessOfPlayer
Rob3rtJamesFischer wrote:

 Glad it helped. I may repost if I find useful info on the Petrosian System.

Sure :)  I am guessing in the petrosian system, black plays a5 as it is prophalactic and petrosian like.

ModestAndPolite
Rob3rtJamesFischer wrote:

Black was the 2000 dude tho.

 

Whoops. Sorry.

ModestAndPolite
ChessOfPlayer wrote:

Black (You mean white?)

 

Yes I meant White.  I am too used to looking at then board from the White side.  Careless mistake. Sorry.

 

Fortunately you are smart enough not to be confused by my error.

chesster3145

Yeah, Lichess ratings are ridiculously inflated.

I'm a 1400-1500 player that sucks at blitz, and my blitz rating there floats around 1700.

My Lichess tactics rating is ~2000.

Lol.