No Blunders or Mistakes but Felt Worse

Sort:
Avatar of MrRoyal4

The game I am posting felt like I was behind from early on. According to the engine I didn't make any mistakes or blunders. I had 3 innacuracies, 18 excellent moves, and 1 good move. Normally this would make me very excited. However, had my opponent not started dropping pieces I feel I was in a far inferior position from about move 6.

I feel my biggest inaccuracy/mistake was 2. e5. I have had the following position against the French before and felt very comfortable throughout the games.

My premature move to e5 prevents me from having an opportunity to reach my preferred position. This is one of the very few games where the computer said I played amazing while I felt like I had a worse position. Had my opponent not started blundering all of his pieces, I think this would have ended in a loss. 

Avatar of notmtwain

I don't know what analysis you ran but the computer says you made two mistakes.

 You were slightly worse when your opponent gave you his queen. I don't think 2. e5 was a problem. 

Avatar of ArtNJ

FYI, its not the french if he plays d6 -- the French revolves around d5.  Playing 2. e5 is usually going to transpose to French defense advance variation, and did in your case.  2. e5 is considered a bad move because black can play the usual stuff if he wants, or he can vary with 2. ... c5 or d6, both of which give good games.  You are expanding black's choices for no benefit.  The advance variation is tricky to play for both sides.

There is a reason why white players that don't know the French often end up playing a sideline like the exchange variation.  Other reasonable variations to avoid theory are e4 e6 d4 d5 nc3 bb4 and now nge2 or continue normally with e5 c5 and play bd2.  Neither give black any problems but they allow white to pretty much play normally without worrying about theory.  Its hysterical to play bd2 and have your opponent go into a deep think looking for a refutation when stockfish thinks white still has a slight pull.  

Avatar of MrRoyal4

Thanks for the replies. In the computer line from notmtwain, (7. O-O(+0.87 → -0.32) Mistake. The best move was 7. dxc5.(7. dxc5 Qc7 8. O-O Nxe5 9. Nxe5Qxe5 10. Bb5+ Nc6 11. Re1 Qc7) why does the queen move to c7 rather than Qxc5? 

I find I'm at too low of a level to understand what makes some computer lines better than others, other than the computer says so. I can use computers for seeing how well I played and seeing missed tactics/defenses but I am often lost on some of the positional/long term strategies the computer sees.

Avatar of ArtNJ

Qxc5 is by far the best move in that alt line, Notmtwain may have run the weak Quick analysis.  It got the best move correct, dxc5, but as you follow the recommended line it gets unreliable fast.  (This is true to an extent even with stronger analysis tools.)

But yes, computers are mostly for blunder/missed tactic checks, although once in a while you can figure out important positional ideas that you missed.  

The important thing to learn here is that after 0-0 you couldn't stop your center from collapsing.  Its not that dxc5 is a good move per se, its just that you need to either trade the pawn or do something to protect it like na3 with c2 to follow, or play qb3.  So the options aren't great ones, black is fine regardless.  

Avatar of jbolden1517

I play the French.   There is some advantage is delaying e5 but not much.  Your 2 e5 is not worth worrying about to much.  Essentially the choice is whether you want his g8N on f5 or d7.  You are going to be playing that e5 anyway soon enough. 

 

5 Nf3 is IMHO where you are likely getting confused.  That's a gambit line.  It looks like it protects your pawn on d4 but it doesn't.  His attackers (c5 pawn, both knights  and queen) will overwhelm your defenders (c3 pawn, queen, f3 knight).  However in the gambit  the knight on b1 is going b1-d2-f3 to start a process where you win tempos against the queen in exchange for the d4 pawn.  So as far as the computer is concerned you are doing fine, you just played a normal gambit line.  My guess is that you didn't mean to play a gambit.  You meant to defend the pawn and noticed you couldn't.   

 

The way to do what you wanted the b1N goes b1-d2-f3 and the g1N goes to e2.  That also allows you to play f4 before you move your knight to f3.  You also often want to get your white bishop developed to e2 or d3  if you aren't going to develop it to g2.  Note B on d3 does lose the queen as a defender but that's fine, the queen is often going to g4 to start making life unpleasant for black.  

 

This has all been played a billion times.  Take a look at the most popular lines in opening explorer for the first 8 moves of the French.   

Avatar of ArtNJ
DeirdreSkye wrote:
ArtNJ wrote:

FYI, its not the french if he plays d6 -- the French revolves around d5.  Playing 2. e5 is usually going to transpose to French defense advance variation, and did in your case. 

 While indeed ...d5 is the charactieristic move of French defense , 1.e4 e6 2.e5 d6(or 2...c5) is an exception and it is considered a  French defense sideline by all authors and theoreticians(Suetin , Psakhis , Estrin etc.).

Ok, I chose my words less than carefully.  But in his post he discussed e4 e6 d4 d6, which is not the French.  And e4 e6 e5 c5 will usually transpose to the sicilian.  But who cares I suppose, we both detoured.  OP should mostly just absorb the lesson that his center became unsupportable after 0-0.  I reckon that is all that will really sink in at this stage and be relevant to other situations.  

Avatar of jbolden1517
DeirdreSkye wrote:
jbolden1517 wrote:

 

 

The way to do what you wanted the b1N goes b1-d2-f3 and the g1N goes to e2.  That also allows you to play f4 before you move your knight to f3.  You also often want to get your white bishop developed to e2 or d3  if you aren't going to develop it to g2.  Note B on d3 does lose the queen as a defender but that's fine, the queen is often going to g4 to start making life unpleasant for black.  

 

 

   You are most likely confusing him with many details that are either wrong or irrelevant for this game.

   The knight from b1 goes to f3 when white sacrifices the pawn and king's knight is exchanged on d4. With king's knight still on g1 White can never play Nbd2-Nf3-Nge2 in advance variation because he always loses d4(unless Black has played very wrong) and if he attempts to play f4 too he will most likely lose fast!

 

 

Sorry you have a typo I think in your comment "White can never play Nbd2-Nf3-Nge2" not sure what you meant.  As for not playing f4 I'm unsure what you mean here,  Why would he lose fast, this is a standard pawn structure. 

Avatar of MrRoyal4

Thanks for all of the input. ArtNJ is right I shouldn't have castled yet. My plan was to hold my center. I was not attempting a gambit line. I am trying to work on positional chess more now than in the past. My current goals are to understand advantages and disadvantages of different positions and minimize my blunders. I dropped nearly 200 points recently from missing hanging pieces on both sides of the board and simple mating patterns.

Avatar of Daniel1115

2 e5 is sub optimal, but your opponent just transposed to mainline french advanced variation. By move 6 you played one of the main moves for white. As a french black player, I find bd3 more troubling, as allowing the knight into f5 puts a lot of pressure on d4. Someone here showed you that you actually did make several mistakes. As white your goal is to reinforce d4, and look to eventually get in f4 and f5. Depending on how your opponnet plays you may also go for a kingside attack instead (or in conjunction).

Avatar of jamiluksm

@royal4 move 16 Qxa2 was a big blunder

Avatar of Marc_Gingras

@mrroyal4 independant of better analysis ...  congratulations on a 0 error 0 blunder game. At my current level, that never happens sad.png

@klauer My understanding of part of your comment is that "tactical open chess" should be mastered before focusing on "positional chess". At what level/rating does the transition normally occur/ become useful? In a similar vein... In several disciplines that I have taught, students tend to slow their progress by trying to jump ahead of their competency.... walk before you run. In others, over-reaching gives students unexpected insight into what they are training and morphs their understanding, skipping levels ...  AH...HA learning. Which is most common in chess?