What's so special about Rd8?

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SwallowTail123

I can't quite remember how I got this position, but I've been confused by it ever since. According to the engine analysis, 1... Rd8 is the only winning move for black. Anyone knows what's so special about Rd8?

justbefair
SwallowTail123 wrote:

I can't quite remember how I got this position, but I've been confused by it ever since. According to the engine analysis, 1... Rd8 is the only winning move for black. Anyone knows what's so special about Rd8?

 

White is up by two pawns. If the white king were safely tucked away, there wouldn't be anything special about Rd8.

But it's out and about, so black has a chance to attack it.

SwallowTail123

@justbefair Ah, I see. Rd8 connects the queen and the rook which I suppose gives the best attacking chances. So basically the engine finds the one and only, very precise attacking line that works for black :')

Very well then, thanks for your reply!

ChessEnthusiast48
1…Rd8 not only connects the rook and the queen but also threatens 2…Rd2+ and mate in 2, which can only be prevented with the loss of white’s queen. After 1…Rd8 white is lost.
SwallowTail123
ChessEnthusiast48 wrote:
1…Rd8 not only connects the rook and the queen but also threatens 2…Rd2+ and mate in 2, which can only be prevented with the loss of white’s queen. After 1…Rd8 white is lost.

Ah, I understand now. Black's attack is so powerful that at some point White must sacrifice the queen for the rook and be down in material..

Thanks @chessenthusiast48

ChessEnthusiast48
No worries. Glad that I could be of help.
SwallowTail123
ChessEnthusiast48 wrote:
No worries. Glad that I could be of help.

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MisterWindUpBird

The question I have is what else you were thinking to play...

SwallowTail123
MisterWindUpBird wrote:

The question I have is what else you were thinking to play...

That's not my point. I know that 1... Rd8 is the most natural move to play, but I was surprised that it is the only move that wins for Black. I can't find why is that so, which is why I asked in this forum. Apparently Black can't waste even a single tempo in the attack..

magipi

There are 2 ways for the rook to join the attack (Re8 and Rd8), so the interesting question is why Re8 loses and Rd8 wins.

After Re8 white plays g4, and runs away with the king (Kg3-Kh2).

After Rd8:

2. g4 Rd2+ 3. Kg3 Qe1+ and the white king is checkmated.

So the special thing is that Rd2+ blocks the e1-a5 diagonal, allowing Qe1+.

SwallowTail123
magipi wrote:

There are 2 ways for the rook to join the attack (Re8 and Rd8), so the interesting question is why Re8 loses and Rd8 wins.

After Re8 white plays g4, and runs away with the king (Kg3-Kh2).

After Rd8:

2. g4 Rd2+ 3. Kg3 Qe1+ and the white king is checkmated.

So the special thing is that Rd2+ blocks the e1-a5 diagonal, allowing Qe1+.

Ah yes, another interesting point. By blocking the diagonal, the rook blocks the White queen from the defense of its King, forcing White to sacrifice the queen for the rook. Nicely spotted!

Donnsteinz
SwallowTail123 wrote:

I can't quite remember how I got this position, but I've been confused by it ever since. According to the engine analysis, 1... Rd8 is the only winning move for black. Anyone knows what's so special about Rd8?

 

 

It's actually quite simple and straightforward. As we can see, white is up 2 pawns in the position. Black's queen has invaded into white's ranks and the white king therefore is a bit vulnerable. But if the king escapes to h2 after g2-g4 followed by Kf2-g3, then black doesn't have any chances. So time is of the essence here and black quickly needs to bring his undeveloped rook into the attack. In the position the rook can be activated through f8,e8,d8, or c8. We can easily see why black can play neither ...Rf8 (white queen is eyeing the square) nor ...Rc8 (a rook exchange is clearly not our agenda). That leaves only ...Re8 and ...Rd8. Let's see why ...Rd8 is winning while ...Re8 isn't.

 

Donnsteinz

It's an interesting position for a beginner to study. 

We can learn:

1) Including all pieces in the attack

2) Overprotection

3) Candidate moves

hope my analysis helped you happy.png

SwallowTail123
Donnsteinz wrote:
SwallowTail123 wrote:

I can't quite remember how I got this position, but I've been confused by it ever since. According to the engine analysis, 1... Rd8 is the only winning move for black. Anyone knows what's so special about Rd8?

 

 

It's actually quite simple and straightforward. As we can see, white is up 2 pawns in the position. Black's queen has invaded into white's ranks and the white king therefore is a bit vulnerable. But if the king escapes to h2 after g2-g4 followed by Kf2-g3, then black doesn't have any chances. So time is of the essence here and black quickly needs to bring his undeveloped rook into the attack. In the position the rook can be activated through f8,e8,d8, or c8. We can easily see why black can play neither ...Rf8 (white queen is eyeing the square) nor ...Rc8 (a rook exchange is clearly not our agenda). That leaves only ...Re8 and ...Rd8. Let's see why ...Rd8 is winning while ...Re8 isn't.

 

I see.. I think this basically sums up the entire discussion. Black can't waste any time since White only needs 1 move, g4, to run the King to safety. Rd2 is also much better that Re2 because it covers the key d6 square that is necessary for White's counterattack, and also blocked the important e1-a5 diagonal for White's Queen to come to its King's defense.

It must be very easy for a 2300 to see that compared to a 1400 like me :')

SwallowTail123
Donnsteinz wrote:

It's an interesting position for a beginner to study. 

We can learn:

1) Including all pieces in the attack

2) Overprotection

3) Candidate moves

hope my analysis helped you

Yep, exactly..

Of course it helped! Thanks a lot @Donnsteinz

Donnsteinz

Great! I'm glad I could help happy.png

SwallowTail123
Donnsteinz wrote:

Great! I'm glad I could help 

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Thee_Ghostess_Lola

i woulda played Re8...and got tagged for a inaccuracy.

SwallowTail123
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

i woulda played Re8...and got tagged for a inaccuracy.

I'd probably get checkmated soon after Re8 :')

MisterWindUpBird

On the e file white can just interpose with it's own rook, can't it?