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Which Is Stronger: 2 Rooks or 1 Queen?

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CuzinVinny

 

Well, I have went though plenty of analysis and searched through dozens upon dozens of games with 2 rook v. 1 queen games. And I have come to a slightly undazzeling conclusion...

The position is equal! Literally, perfectly equal. Like, you could create a game that had only 2 rooks against the 1 queen. Thats how equal the two varities are. 

Now, this would be a fun game to watch, 2 players with 2 kings each, but with different sets: 2 rooks or one queen. Anti-Climatic drumroll please!

I have seen many forums and blog posts about this exact topic, and its understandable; it has even happened to me a couple of times!

I will demonstrate why a queen v two rooks is a near perfect in every way. Please use you ocular muscles and bring your eyes to my diagram below!

An advanced elo rated chess computer analyzed this position for over 8 hours (left my computer running over night) and after a bashing processing depth of 48 moves, the computer concluded the position was dead equal. I checked my chess program deeper, and found that white had a +0.00019 advantage, with a 1 being up one pawn. So in all realistical logistics and statistics, if 100,000 people played at a tournament with this exact same set up, then everyone would draw, except for 19 people playing with the 2 rooks. They would win. Logically...

So in a mind shattering context, I can not make any solid conclusions :/

 


Pros of 2 Rooks

1). 2 pieces = more options

2). Able to coordinate with the other piece

Cons of 2 Rooks

1). If unconnected with the other rook or king, is easy prey for the queen to scoop up

2). The linear movement of a rook makes for predictability, and is easy for the opponent to calculate

 

Pros of 1 Queen

1). Can move diagonally

2). Is able to deliver checkmate more easily then a rook

Cons of 1 Queen

1). If pinned to the king, is automatically a lose for the player with the queen, since the rook player can force checkmate with 1 rook.

2). It's still only a single piece, and since the opponent has only the queen to focus on, will result in shrewd predictable games.


I was hoping my computer would not show the position as a 0.00, it deludes this chess post, making it icky and unwanted

So it is up to the chess community to decide! Brotheren! I call to heed your fair aid! What do you think? Which side has the greater advantage? I am really at a lose and am looking for any sort of argument that concludes one side has a stronger advantage!

"With silent lips, give me your games, your analysis, you huddled chess programs yearning to process faster" - Ancient made up chess wisdom

bulletvinik

The two rooks are better. Even in middle games with 2 rooks vs quenn the rooks are usually better especially in open postions with open files.

benonidoni

Of the endgame books I've read 2 rooks are almost always better. Many exceptions though depending on board position.

Bizarrebra
benonidoni wrote:

Of the endgame books I've read 2 rooks are almost always better. Many exceptions though depending on board position.


In the endgame 2 rooks vs the queen are fully equal. Just realize that if there are no pawns, you can always sacrifice the queen for both rooks.

I would say more: if there are pawns on the board, and specially if there are pawns on BOTH SIDES of the board I would say the queen has an edge over the two rooks, since the diagonals are the key.

majorityattack

You don't need an engine for this. Since there are only 5 pieces on the board, you have a 100% confirmation of the result by checking it against Nalimov tablebase, for every possible move combination. For example, I fed your position as FEN (8/5q2/4k3/8/8/3K4/2RR4/8 b - - 0 1) in this website. It lists all possible moves and the results. It is a draw except if white makes a wrong move like Rc8 or Rc7, in which case Black wins.

hotflamer

2 rooks are stronger. 2 pieces are better then one,but beginners prefer the queen

oinquarki
hotflamer wrote:

2 rooks are stronger. 2 pieces are better then one,but beginners prefer the queen


No, beginners make simplistic judgements without regard to positional factors.

antioxidant
[COMMENT DELETED]
antioxidant

drawish for black

oinquarki
Benju13 wrote:

drawish for black


Svekke

It most of the time depends on the position.

In this position 2 rooks are better since their is only 1 open line (the d-file) and the queen has not many targets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the next position the queen is better. The lines are closed and their are a lot of targets (weak pawns etc)

mrsmokeymad

Does it matter if the rooks are 2 or 6? a rook is always weaker than  queens, no matter how many of them.

checkmateibeatu

Two rooks vs. Queen with no pawns seems drawish.

checkmateibeatu

Actually, the two rooks might win because if allowed, they can mate by themselves and it might take sacking a queen for one of the rooks to stop mate.

GatheredDust

Well, if it's JUST 2R vs. Q, it's probably a draw.

However, in both endgames with pawns and middlegames where the rooks can be active, the side with 2 rooks is usually stronger.

duskrevival

Actually, it depends on many factors. Like whose turn it is, king position, rook and queen position. in a no pawn rook vs queen endgame. It's harder to win even with a queen vs one rook. 

The one with the queen can at least get a draw though, if it's his turn, Check spam works.
checkmateibeatu

A correction to your analysis:

 

ivandh
oinquarki wrote:
hotflamer wrote:

2 rooks are stronger. 2 pieces are better then one,but beginners prefer the queen


No, beginners make simplistic judgements without regard to positional factors.


+1

duskrevival
checkmateibeatu wrote:

A correction to your analysis:

 


You're right, I wasn't looking and randomly put that up, here is a more accurate one I guess

mrsmokeymad

aaaaaag