Why is 6....Nf6 a Blunder?

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Avatar of Heinkel111

The engine says that 6....Nf6 was a Blunder (+6.60) by my opponent (black) but I am not seeing how it was a blunder.

Engine says I should have countered with Nc3 to capitalise and my move Re1 was a Mistake reducing my advantage to +3.97

I like to try and learn from reviewing errors but I don't get this one.

 

Avatar of IMKeto

6...Nf6 loses the Knight.

Avatar of Heinkel111

^Thanks.

Of course.

Sometimes I am suffer from chess blindness!

Avatar of Chesserroo2

Bringing the knight out gives White a tempo to play h3, preparing for Bd3 to try trapping the queen. Black clearly will lose a knight, but can play stuff like Nxd4 and Qxe5. I'd have to look longer for the full trap.

Avatar of Chesserroo2

Losing the knight would not cause +6.60, though it still is a blunder. Seems something else is lurking. I would take the knight first and play h3 and then Bd3 after that.

Avatar of Chesserroo2

Or even 7 exf6 gxf6 8 Bd3 Qg4 9 h3 Qh5 10 g4 to trap the queen. So Black would play something other than 7... gxf6.

Avatar of santiagomagno15

Nc3 develops a piece with tempo and I think the black queen is trap, and if its not trap that you can take the free knight then

Avatar of zeitnotakrobat

What about something like 7. Sc3 Dg4 8. Sb5 (to protect d4 with tempo) Kd8 9. Sg5 Dh4 10. g3 Dh6 11. Sxf7+ ?

Avatar of 999-Pietor-999

Before you analyse anything. If you are sub 1200 theres a tendency to bring out the queen early. IMs and GMs say it all the time, its an amateur habit, if you are bringing your Queen out within the first 6-7 moves your just asking for trouble. Develop your pieces and youll see the game starts to make more sense. 

Avatar of MagdeburgThePianist

Even though the e5 pawn is indeed white, I'm sure it's not a ghost wink.png

Avatar of Heinkel111

I was playing white and I completely missed it. And it was sitting there for another 6 moves until I eventually took it with the queen.

Doh!

Avatar of dk-Ltd
Heinkel111 wrote:

I was playing white and I completely missed it. And it was sitting there for another 6 moves until I eventually took it with the queen.

Doh!

quite funny, even though it happens to most tongue.png

if it was daily and not live, it wouldn't be that funny though...

what was the time limit?

Avatar of Heinkel111

 I would not miss it on daily. Daily is my normal game.

That was 30 minute rapid which is as fast as i can play.

I am trying to catch my 30 minute rapid score up to my daily score but it is hard work to grind the gears at that speed.

I have no idea how blitz players play unless they have so much experience that the moves are second nature.

Avatar of dk-Ltd
Heinkel111 wrote:

 I would not miss it on daily. Daily is my normal game.

That was 30 minute rapid which is as fast as i can play.

I am trying to catch my 30 minute rapid score up to my daily score but it is hard work to grind the gears at that speed.

I have no idea how blitz players play unless they have so much experience that the moves are second nature.

I am on the same boat as you. I find it really hard to play under faster time limits. I tried playing blitz for improving my speed and don't think it worked well. It seems like the best approach is to play all time limits and that helps you to understand and apply some time management. I am doing this now and seems to be somewhat working. Wouldn't advice you though to play blitz. You will get used to it and then you will be too bored to play longer time controls, which in turn will create a decline on your playing strength.

Avatar of captaintugwash

The queen must be trapped. +6 seems like bishop for queen exchange.

6. Nc3... 

6... Qf5 or Qg6 replies 7. Nh4 and the queen is lost, so black is forced to play...

6... Qg4, 7. h3... yeah the queen is lost, he either goes with

7... Qf5, then 8. Nh4 wins queen, or

7... Qh5, in which case 8. Nxf6+ picks up the queen.

 

So yeah, queen is trapped already.

Avatar of Heinkel111

So that is the reason Nf6 is a +6 blunder.

And that is the reason why the engine does not suggest taking the knight on the next move.

The blunder is trapping his queen, not blundering his knight.

Avatar of captaintugwash

My analysis is flawed, white doesn't have 8. Nxf6+, but the queen must still be lost. I'm just taking a look now.

Avatar of captaintugwash

Hmm I'm not so sure the queen is trapped, however, the cost of retreating her is heavy for black. The engine suggests chasing the queen for a couple of moves, then Nb5 threatens to win rook, but from there the engine thinks Bd6 is good, so it's getting a bit messy.

 

At the very least, white can activate most of his pieces while chasing the queen, also grabbing the knight on f6 at some point. Black's queen offers no threat, on the contrary it's a huge burden because her mobility is extremely limited and he desperately trying to find a safe place for her, while also having to contend with other threats.

 

Such is the burden, that the engine actually thinks giving up the queen immediately is better than the alternative. After 7. Nc3, engine wants to play 7... Nxd4. So while the queen isn't quite lost, with perfect play from white, the cost for black is greater if he tries to keep his queen.