Why is Stockfish obsessed with the h7 pawn? Nf3-Ng5-Nxh7

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Avatar of GambitShift
drmrboss wrote:

 

Ng5!! is very strong!

1. Stockfish prefer  Nxh7 and Nf6+

2. Lc0 prefer Ne6 , 

 

Both engines see completely winning in their own choices.

 

You are the man to go to. Please explain in detail the obsession with the h7 pawn.

Avatar of ALLlESTIEN
GambitShift wrote:
drmrboss wrote:

 

Ng5!! is very strong!

1. Stockfish prefer  Nxh7 and Nf6+

2. Lc0 prefer Ne6 , 

 

Both engines see completely winning in their own choices.

 

You are the man to go to. Please explain in detail the obsession with the h7 pawn.

Ur trash, an extra pawn is a good thing.

 

Avatar of blueemu

It seems to me that White is winning so completely in the position you gave (after move 12) that you can play almost any line that has some sensible logic behind it.

My choice, as stated, would be to triple my heavy pieces on the e-file, since this would force Black entirely on the defensive by the threat of Rxe7+.

Stockfish's choice (Ng5) would also work, of course. So would your choice (Qe2).

Even your finger-slip (Bb2) should win.

Avatar of Laskersnephew

"If you play different moves, it still wants to grab the h7 pawn"  Because it's the best move! Although 17.Ne6 is also very strong 

Although the N on h7 looks all alone and weird to you, it is threatening Nxf8 so it's clearly doing something! You're looking at this position as if it were an oil painting, but it's really a movie. Nxh7 collapses the king side, wins a pawn and forces the rook off f8.  17...Rf5 18.Bf6, 17...Rf7 18.Qg4+ Kb8 19.Ng5 etc.

 

Avatar of GambitShift

"Ur trash, an extra pawn is a good thing."

So, you take it solely on the basis of being up 1 more point in material?

Avatar of ALLlESTIEN
GambitShift wrote:

"Ur trash, an extra pawn is a good thing."

So, you take it solely on the basis of being up 1 more point in material?

I'm the worlds 3rd strongest chess engine, I know what i'm talking about.

Avatar of GambitShift

"Nxh7 collapses the king side, wins a pawn and forces the rook off f8." 

As I asked another person, Toldsted, what is the point of that? Shouldn't I be attacking the queenside to get to the king?

Avatar of AyushBlundersAgain

Ng5 doesn't actually look that bad. It attacks h7 and if he plays h6, Ne6 looks good.

Avatar of GambitShift

"since this would force Black entirely on the defensive by the threat of Rxe7+."

If Nc6 is played then it is protecting the N on e7. The king can castle long and then it's no longer going to be checked. A move mentioned by other people is Rf7 which would also protect the e7 square. 

 

The main point of the thread was more so to do with curiosity over the h7 pawn. Perhaps, there is a reason for white to pay more attention to the kingside, but for now I don't quite see it. If I could go back and play a position again, I wouldn't have played 19. c4.

 

That brings us back to Ng5 though. h3 and h4 are shown by Stockfish, which is also just as mysterious. The only thing that jumps out is, why not Qe6+ and then Nd5 to go for a fork on d7?

Avatar of GambitShift
AyushMChessMator wrote:

Ng5 doesn't actually look that bad. It attacks h7 and if he plays h6, Ne6 looks good.

 

Ok, the question is WHY? Why does white need that h7 pawn so bad? Is it a lost kitten? Is it someone's baby? Is it the last toilet roll on the shelf?

Avatar of k00m00d00
GambitShift wrote:
AyushMChessMator wrote:

Ng5 doesn't actually look that bad. It attacks h7 and if he plays h6, Ne6 looks good.

 

Ok, the question is WHY? Why does white need that h7 pawn so bad? Is it a lost kitten? Is it someone's baby? Is it the last toilet roll on the shelf?

Zzap, 'no, It is the your last chance to get a Chess.com membership for $5.20/year.'

Avatar of drmrboss
GambitShift wrote:
drmrboss wrote:

 

Ng5!! is very strong!

1. Stockfish prefer  Nxh7 and Nf6+

2. Lc0 prefer Ne6 , 

 

Both engines see completely winning in their own choices.

 

You are the man to go to. Please explain in detail the obsession with the h7 pawn.

No need to explain the " deaf ears". Lots of people said the reasons in several posts above, including my post. 

Avatar of GambitShift
drmrboss wrote:
GambitShift wrote:
drmrboss wrote:

 

Ng5!! is very strong!

1. Stockfish prefer  Nxh7 and Nf6+

2. Lc0 prefer Ne6 , 

 

Both engines see completely winning in their own choices.

 

You are the man to go to. Please explain in detail the obsession with the h7 pawn.

No need to explain the " deaf ears". Lots of people said the reasons in several posts above, including my post. 

 

"Stockfish prefer  Nxh7 and Nf6+"

 

I see. It's not an obsession. It's a preference?

Avatar of Laskersnephew

Taking to a man with his fingers stuffed in his ears seems like a waste of time

Avatar of AyushBlundersAgain
GambitShift wrote:
AyushMChessMator wrote:

Ng5 doesn't actually look that bad. It attacks h7 and if he plays h6, Ne6 looks good.

 

Ok, the question is WHY? Why does white need that h7 pawn so bad? Is it a lost kitten? Is it someone's baby? Is it the last toilet roll on the shelf?

Wow that's a lot of drama you put up there lol. That h7 pawn is good; usually being up a pawn is better than not being up the pawn if it doesn't alter the position much. You could stack up pieces on the e-file and put pressure on the king.

If you want to attack the king, attack the center. If you want extra material because your opponent isn't really attacking play Ng5 with the intent of Nxh7. A lot of ideas work here, but a lot of people like winning material.

Avatar of Laskersnephew

Lets be clear: Stockfish is not obsessed with the h7 pawn, the OP is. Stockfish plays Ng5 because its algorithm has determined that it is the best move. Of course an extra pawn is always nice, but the knight on h7 is doing a great job. The Rf8 is attacked, and what is black going to do about it? In the last analysis, chess is a concrete game and you have to calculate, not bloviate about what looks weird to you.

BTW if you let Stockfish calculate a long time, 17.Ne6 and 17.Nxh7 seem to be just about equally good. 

Avatar of GambitShift

"If you want to attack the king, attack the center."

But it's going to castle queenside. That's like aiming your missiles on Tora Bora while Osama dresses like a lady and travels to Pakistan.

 

Let's say you double the rooks and a queen, then what?

 

Avatar of AyushBlundersAgain
GambitShift wrote:

"If you want to attack the king, attack the center."

But it's going to castle queenside. That's like aiming your missiles on Tora Bora while Osama dresses like a lady and travels to Pakistan.

 

Let's say you double the rooks and a queen, then what?

 

You could go Qe2 and then Qe6 later. I will admit, your suggested variations suck. Just find a plan you can carry out. If you're so hell bent on playing a4, do it. I would play Ng5-e6 because the knight is very much activated.

If you can't figure out a plan at 1450, I don't know what to say

Avatar of Laskersnephew

17.Rxe7 Nxe7 18.Qxe7 looks pretty winning for White. Try to look at the board while you're arguing about variations

Avatar of AyushBlundersAgain

I hope you don;t need to know why Ng5-e6  is good