1.Nf3 has a surprising amount of poison

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Avatar of Farm_Hand

I just starting playing this randomly, knowing almost nothing, and actually white gets some incredibly nagging advantages.

Not a big advantage, but a noticeable one that seems to linger forever and ever and ever.

This was what first caught my eye. Black played, IMO, really well, and is rewarded with a joyless endgame.

 

 

Of course it's not hard to be equal. Black can just copy your moves. g3 g6, Nf3 Nf6, Bg2 Bg7 etc. but even in these cases the game will eventually develop play.

Anyway, a well prepared 1.Nf3 is seeming like a really strong opening for under 2200.

 

 

Avatar of K_A_L_E

Even at a higher level, there’s a reason Kramnik’s Catalan is hard to beat, even if he doesn’t always start from Nf3, the structure in your first game is what he goes for 

Avatar of blueemu

Here's one of my games from an old OTB tournament. It starts with 1. e4 but immediately transposes into a 1. Nf3 2. g3 3. Bg2 line.

 

Avatar of Farm_Hand
BobbyPhisher960 wrote:

In first game you played the Grünfeld a tempo ahead.

In second one Black's position is fully playable despite pawn weaknesses after e.g. Bf5 f.b. Qd5.

For sure this isn't like... a solution to chess or something tongue.png

Black gets playable games.

But as a life long 1.e4 player I'm just sort of... shocked at how easily I can get positions I like the look of for white. I'm not aware of many of the transposition's names because I've never played things like the grunfeld, slav, KID, etc from either color.

Avatar of Debistro

Black played shockingly bad, that's why....

Avatar of Pulpofeira
Farm_Hand escribió:
BobbyPhisher960 wrote:

In first game you played the Grünfeld a tempo ahead.

In second one Black's position is fully playable despite pawn weaknesses after e.g. Bf5 f.b. Qd5.

For sure this isn't like... a solution to chess or something

Black gets playable games.

But as a life long 1.e4 player I'm just sort of... shocked at how easily I can get positions I like the look of for white. I'm not aware of many of the transposition's names because I've never played things like the grunfeld, slav, KID, etc from either color.

Nf3 on a early stage must be avoided if you aim for a QGD Exchange for example. I like it, and although I've never played 1. Nf3, I've had to switch from QID to Nimzo.

Avatar of Farm_Hand
Debistro wrote:

Black played shockingly bad, that's why....

I just randomly started trying it out. I don't know the lines. Please post some good lines for black, it will help me learn more about it happy.png

Avatar of StinkingHyena

Ah the old reverse Grunfeld try! In that first game tell me you werent hoping for 4...cd 5 Nxd4 e5 6 Nxc6 bc 7 c4... (At least thats what an old patzer like me hopes for, though they rarely play it sad.png)

Avatar of Farm_Hand

Well, yeah, that would be nice grin.png

I actually didn't realize this was a reversed grunfeld, but ok, I see d4 makes it like that.

I guess d3 would be some kind if KIA/KID setup.

What other choices does white have? I was thinking c4+d4 might become a catalan.

Avatar of SmurfOnSteroids

I just don't feel that a knight can attack a square with the same force as a pawn, thus I move a pawn first.

It also takes away my ability to play Ne2 or (Nh3 to Nf2) and blocks the f-pawn too early.

Avatar of kaspariano

What do you play in case of 1.Nf3 d5 Because if you go 2.d4 then black goes 2...c5 and the game is drawish


 

Avatar of ace_mar
Kaspariano
White does not have to play D4 in the position. Both c4 and g3 are mainlines and other good options
Even in the position you showed after c5, white can play c4 and it transposes into a tarrasch after e6.
If cxd4 instead of e6 white can play cxd5 qxd5 nc3 and whites already much better
Avatar of Farm_Hand
kaspariano wrote:

What do you play in case of 1.Nf3 d5 Because if you go 2.d4 then black goes 2...c5 and the game is drawish


 

I don't play 2.d4, but even so, that looks like it's becoming a tarrasch, which ok, maybe that's drawish at a very high level, but it will have tons of play for people like us.

Avatar of StinkingHyena
kaspariano wrote:

What do you play in case of 1.Nf3 d5 Because if you go 2.d4 then black goes 2...c5 and the game is drawish


 

 

Sorry not following, how is it drawish? Seems like only c3 is drawish? dc and e3 both unbalance the pawn structure in different ways and Bf4 or g3 seem to go in either a tactical or positional direction? (I really am asking, I assume there is something I am missing)

Avatar of drmrboss

I like 1. Nf3. Lots of options to play in centre, king side or queenside. In this game I played with with Nimzovitch attack. (I use hedgehog pawn structre with d3, e3 to prevent his counter play in the centre while I am firing on his king side) 

 

 

Avatar of StinkingHyena
drmrboss wrote:

I like 1. Nf3. Lots of options to play in centre, king side or queenside. In this game I played with with Nimzovitch attack. (I use hedgehog pawn structre with d3, e3 to prevent his counter play in the centre while I am firing on his king side) 

 

 

 Historical Note: That small center of e3 d3 or e6 d6 is known as Paulsen Pawns (yeah im single handily trying to bring it back!), seen in about 100 lines with c4 or c5 to get the cfile, but I really like your idea of using it to keep the center closed then launching a kingside attack. Maybe its an old idea and I just never noticed it? Either way kudus! (I wish I could play g60 the way you play 1 0!)

Avatar of Farm_Hand

Looked like a pretty normal 1.f4 game. You even did the Qe1 maneuver. With the pawn on c2 I wouldn't call it a hedgehog, but anyway, thanks for an example game.

Avatar of drmrboss

Well, in my own theory, 

1. King Side attack is more successful if the centre is closed . 

2. If your king is being attack, open the centre or exchange pieces (rather than soley defense).

 

 

 

 

 

Avatar of Farm_Hand

In everyone else's theory too.

So yeah, d3 is useful to be able to meet d4 with e4.

Avatar of kaspariano
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kaspariano wrote:

What do you play in case of 1.Nf3 d5 Because if you go 2.d4 then black goes 2...c5 and the game is drawish


 

    3 moves played, all pieces and pawns on the board and it's already  drawish?

Thanks man, that was a good laugh!

 

You are welcome!