A Knight on the rim is dim

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AlxMaster

That's one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. A LOT of best moves in a LOT of positions is to move a knight to the "a" or "h" file.

I hate noob chess lessons...Yell

waffllemaster

In chess all rules of thumb have exceptions, but they're rules because more often than not they're correct.

AlxMaster

But in almost every chess game there is at least one best move of knight to "a" or "h".  It's not a rare exception, it's a very common one.

waffllemaster
AlxMaster wrote:

But in almost every chess game there is at least one best move of knight to "a" or "h".

I disagree.

AlxMaster

Houdini 3 suggests to move knight to "a" or "h" almost every game. (in fact more than once per game, and if you consider both sides, double that)

Houdini 3 rating: 3250

Noob chess teacher rating: 2000 -

Deal with the facts.

GreenCastleBlock

Whose knight has more influence in this position?

RomyGer

In Dutch : Een paard aan de kant maakt het spel te schand !     

Free translated : A horse at the edge is a shame for the game !

Let's collect thumb rules from all over the world, ( with translations in English please...)

And after over 60 years of playing chess, I see last years more horses on A and H than in former times; again "modern" play ?

crazytypes

When a knight moves to the edge, it usually goes there on a path to a better square. Example: Nf3-h4-f5 or similar.

A knight staying on the rim is dim. 

9thEagle

And keep in mind that --according to you --Houdini says to move the knight to the rim 2 times in almost every game. But how many times does it say to move a knight to a square that is NOT on the rim? So since neither the computer nor the coach can give you specific advice in the middle of the game, would not both -as a preemptive rule of thumb- say that the best move puts the knight in the center more often than the edge?

AlxMaster

The best move puts the knight outside the edge more often than inside, mostly because out of the 8 lines, only 2 are at the edge and 6 are not, not because "a knight on the rim is dim".

9thEagle

Even if you categorized with a weighted average (i.e. divide the number of times Houdini says to move to the center by 36, and the times is says to move the knight to the edge by 20), the knight will still belong in the center more than the edge. AND keep in mind that you are calculating the best move for THE GAME, not the best move for the knight. Beginners (which are the ones that need the advice, anyway) won't make the best move. But if they realize that they should move thier knight . . . maybe moving the knight to f3 is the 7th best move, but moving the knight to h3 is the 12th best move. You would need to factor in "if I'm going to move the knight, regardless of if there's a better move, where is the best place for the knight." ALSO, you would need to count the number of moves that the knight STAYS on it's square. I'm betting a knight on c3 will stay there a lot longer than a knight on a3. Because a knight's usefullness doesn't just come from where it moves, but also where it stays to make threats.

AlxMaster

Ok 9th eagle, a knight is more oftenly than not better at the center.

But many noob teachers say that to move a knight to the corner is always bad (or even a shame like RomyGer said). Because they themselves are bad players, that's why.

crazytypes

First rule of chess strategy: there are exceptions to every rule.

TheLastSupper
AlxMaster wrote:

Ok 9th eagle, a knight is more oftenly than not better at the center.

But many noob teachers say that to move a knight to the corner is always bad (or even a shame like RomyGer said). Because they themselves are bad players, that's why.

Oh the irony.

xxvalakixx

The rule "a knight on a rim is dim" (we also have such a rule) means that you should not DEVELOP your knight to the h3/h6 or a3/a6 squares.







But, this saying does not mean that if you can put your knights to a better square by putting them to the rim first, then do not do that.


 

 

 

 

 

 Sorry, += what I wanted to write, since white is a bit better.

So putting a knight to the rim is not always bad, but lots of beginners do that they develop their knights to h3/h6 a3/a6 with no reason. They probably think that both moves (let me say now Nf3 and Nh3) are equal, since both develops the knight.

But if a knight stays on the rim for a long time, they will not be able to move to good squares since the (let me suppose it is a Nh3 knight now) b5, c4 squares will not be available always.

But just look at GreenCastleBlock's position shown above, these are the same situations.

Nivek9

So AlxMaster, you, of a 1500 bullet rating, think you are right and all the grandmasters are wrong? Yeah, keep believing that fool.

AlxMaster

To think you can prove a rule of how to move a knight based on a bunch of examples is silly. I could bring opposite examples here.

Blunderfull711
zhangb wrote:

A knight staying on the rim is dim. 

I like this and everyone seems to ignore it. I also think "A knight on the rim is dim" is really applying to the opening and middle games not endgames. this is because in middle and openings there are more key squares that need to be defended but by the end game there are only one or two important squares

AlxMaster
kinghunter75 wrote:

To all who are following this thread, please don't argue with the OP because he is beyond reason. Arguing with him is like wrestling with a pig - you both get dirty but the pig likes it!

So... Calling me a pig proves that I'm wrong. Great.

waffllemaster
AlxMaster wrote:

Houdini 3 suggests to move knight to "a" or "h" almost every game.

I disagree.