Do you prefer a bat or a crowbar for the crushing part?
Appropriate Draw offer?
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Reb wrote:
In otb chess too many draw offers is not allowed. The arbiter can be called and the offending player can be punished if they persist in offering draws. Common sense should tell most people that its not good sportsmanship to offer a draw when you are losing and this is compounded if, after your opponent declines, you continue offering draws. I sometimes think it would be best if the draw offer worked like the doubling cube in backgammon..... if you offer a draw then the ability to offer a draw passes to the opponent and you are NOT allowed to make multiple draw offers.
This is how I behave anyway, I don't think consecutive draw offers should come from the same player. If my opponent declines, I'm ready to play out the rest of the game.
Sep 8, 2010
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#44
I think that the reality of the etiquette is that once the position has changed significantly, it's okay to offer a draw again.
For example, you're in a rook endgame with equal material and your opponent has a slightly better rook. You offer a draw and he declines.
A little bit later, there are pawns only on one side of the board, and the rooks are equal strength. It is okay to offer a draw again there.
If such a change did happen I'd expect my opponent to offer the draw (or keep playing for a win). If they start repeating maneuvers I guess at that point I would offer a second time.
Maybe it's my inexperience at tournaments but as long as they kept making moves, so would I. They know I was willing to accept a draw before, so I'd just wait for them to make an offer -- even though like most players I could draw that position 50 for 50 on a 50 board simul vs all GMs.
If they were clearly not trying to make progress, I would get annoyed and offer a draw or even appeal to the TD depending on the circumstances.
Sep 8, 2010
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#48
But you would NOT re-offer a draw.
I sort of see the "going to the TD" route as what I'd do if they still refused a draw offer. Or if they're moving quickly, eventually you'd get to a position which would start the 50 move clock. Something like this.
Proper etiquette is for the player with the advantage to offer the draw.
I heard two players joking after one round that (because the endgame was equal for so long) either would have accepted a draw if the other had offered. Instead neither got much time between rounds to rest as it was drug on to the bitter end.
Sep 8, 2010
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#52
most players below 2000 do not evalueate a position in the endgame correct.
I have seen players offer draw in the Lucena position because they didn't know it. it appears to be drawish but if you know the theory you can win.
Maybe the site should force whoever is offering the draw a time limit in their next move so they don't just sit there. I've never offered a draw that was NOT a draw or in my favor slightly. Every time a draw has been offered by an opponent, the game was on the decline for them or imminent mate pending.
Feb 15, 2011
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#54
Knooterbob: I believe you but did you analyze all your games with a computer afterwards.
I've seen even quite strong chess player that could figure out how to win the following endgame. I was spectacter to this endgame and the one playing white offered a draw. He could not figure out how to win. I was kind of shocked.
Feb 15, 2011
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#55
Here are the guidelines I use to offer draws, they have served me well:
- if you feel the position is equal, you are ahead, the position is unclear (to you), or you truly believe the position is drawn, a draw offer is definitely ok.
- if you feel you are behind, a draw offer may be ok. in this case, the position should be significantly complicated enough or the win hard enough to find that it is reasonable to believe your opponent may misanalyze the position and accept. In this case, a "tactical" draw offer may be reasonable.
- once you have a draw declined, you should be extremely reluctant to offer again. At a minimum a reasonable amount of time should pass, many moves should be played, and the character of the position should change significantly. Even then, it is preferred to simply wait for your opponent to offer a draw.
You will note that these rules are subject to personal interpretation and would not be good formal rules. I feel that chess is a civilized game and the players should be trusted to interpret the intent of the above, not quibble over what a "reasonable amount of time" is or how many is "many moves". You know it when you see it.
In the position shown in this article, I would not offer a draw. If offered a draw here by an opponent, I would smile and decline. I wouldn't consider my opponent intentionally rude, just naive to the etiquette of the game.
ah, addendum to the guidelines:
- if you feel you are worse, but that your opponent may be ready to take a draw rather then risk playing on due to their position in the tournament, a draw offer is reasonable.
So in short, a draw offer is ok if you think there is a reasonably good chance it will be accepted. Once you offer, don't offer again.
Jun 24, 2011
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#58
I don't agree with Godspawn. I have played a lot of otb tournaments and seen it over and over.
It is not unusual to see beginners and/or very weak players play until mate on a regular basis. Is IS very unusual to see this happen when stronger players meet. As I have said before : good players know when they should resign and they do.
He has the right to offer a draw, you also have the right to refuse it and kick his sorry little hiney into the 1-0 corner.
AMEN BROTHA! My sentiments exactly. He has the right to ask,but you can simply decline and crush him.