Best player never to win the chess World Championship

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wingtzun

Was Morphy not (unofficial) World Champion.

Anyway, Morphy would struggle to get in to the top 100 nowadays. Rating approx 2600 at best.

atomichicken
mkirk wrote:

Was Morphy not (unofficial) World Champion.

Anyway, Morphy would struggle to get in to the top 100 nowadays. Rating approx 2600 at best.


I believe so, but technically as he wasn't the official WC he should get considered I believe.

With all the advancements on strategy and theory of course he wouldn't. That's the problem with comparing players of different eras. He was apparantly however one of the most accurate players ever, even apparantly whilst always playing rather quickly. (I'm saying "apparantly" because Batgirl could come along at any minute and refute all this :)).

wingtzun

Bring it on batgirl  Laughing

atomichicken
buenotc wrote:

If he never won a world chess championship,then logic suggests he was never the best....not even close.


The discussion we're having is not including any WCs though. Anyway, even if it were what you say doesn't make any sense. He was from an era pre-dating any official WC title.

CPawn

Karpov

wingtzun
CPawn wrote:

Karpov


 umm... but Karpov has won a world championship and has been world champion - both against Korchnoi (late 70's and 1981) and in 1993 against Jan Timman.

TheOldReb

Karpov played 10 matches for the world championship !  Five of those matches were against Kasparov. Has any player in chess history played more matches for the world championship ? I dont know of any.

CPawn
mkirk wrote:
CPawn wrote:

Karpov


 umm... but Karpov has won a world championship and has been world champion - both against Korchnoi (late 70's and 1981) and in 1993 against Jan Timman.


 Karpov didnt win the title, he retained the the title that was given to him.

ozzie_c_cobblepot
CPawn wrote:
mkirk wrote:
CPawn wrote:

Karpov


 umm... but Karpov has won a world championship and has been world champion - both against Korchnoi (late 70's and 1981) and in 1993 against Jan Timman.


 Karpov didnt win the title, he retained the the title that was given to him.


He won by default.

goldendog
Catalyst_Kh wrote:

You forgot the great Najdorf.


 He was more like a contender to being a contender. Still pretty great.

gabrielconroy

My vote goes to Bronstein.

TheOldReb

I guess some still consider Karpov as a "paper champion" since Fischer wouldnt play. I think even Karpov felt this and this drove him to "prove himself " over the board and thus he became the most active world champion ever, didnt he ? We should be thankful for this really. He certainly did prove himself worthy of the title though with his results over the next couple of decades ! Certainly from 1975-1985, until the arrival of Kasparov and with Fischer not active, Karpov could honestly claim to have no superior . He showed this on the board. With the arrival of Kasparov in 1985 it was then another decade with Karpov and Kasparov in a class alone, above everyone else.

TheOldReb
CPawn wrote:
mkirk wrote:
CPawn wrote:

Karpov


 umm... but Karpov has won a world championship and has been world champion - both against Korchnoi (late 70's and 1981) and in 1993 against Jan Timman.


 Karpov didnt win the title, he retained the the title that was given to him.


 Is there some doubt in you that Karpov was actually WC calibre ? Given his results from 1975-1985 I dont know how anyone could still have any doubts about his qualification as a world champion. He "won" the title by default when Fischer refused to play, but in your mind the title was "given to him". He won the candidates matches to get to the position he was in , had Korchnoi won the final it would have been Korchnoi that became world champion by "default". Probably Karpov would have been his challenger in 78 too.

TheOldReb

My vote would go to Paul Keres as the best player that never won the world championship. His lifetime % is better than all but 2 or 3 of the world champions ! I think Botvinnik and "politics" kept Keres from ever even getting a shot at it, at least Bronstein did get a shot. Korchnoi got several shots, and failed.

Suggo

Lizard!  lol

TheOldReb
Gonnosuke wrote:
CPawn wrote:
mkirk wrote:
CPawn wrote:

Karpov


 umm... but Karpov has won a world championship and has been world champion - both against Korchnoi (late 70's and 1981) and in 1993 against Jan Timman.


 Karpov didnt win the title, he retained the the title that was given to him.


Karpov doesn't deserve this sort of permanent asterisk next to his name.  It wasn't until the best player of all time arrived on the scene that Karpov had a serious rival.  If one wants to diminish the accomplishments of former World Champions, there are much easier targets than Karpov....


 I must agree that Karpov doesnt deserve the asterisk attached to him, however you are a little off the mark with the rest of your comment Roy. Karpov didnt have a serious rival because the greatest player of all time quit ! Tongue out

mrwrangler

How about Samuel Reshevsky?

goldendog
mrwrangler wrote:

How about Samuel Reshevsky?


 Reshevsky won a 4-game mini-match vs. Botvinnik, so I think it's fair to say he belongs among the great contenders.

Dinosaur53

You might have to include Paul Keres among the contenders as well!?

goldendog

Karpov wasn't up to Fischer's standard in 1975. 1978 might have been different.