Bobby Fischer vs Magnus Carlsen

"Carlsen is the least computer dependent top player currently (together with Peter Svidler). He is the world's #1 simply because of his phenomenal positional understanding, and awesome fighting spirit."

C'mon every strong player today has relied on computers to one extent or another. If we could identify the GM who uses them the least it is still unarguable that that person uses them more than EVERY GM in 1972. That's because no one used them in 1972. 

Carlsen has already played about twice as many official games as Fischer played in his entire career. Part of the great tragedy of Fischer is that there are so few games available. It's possible that Fischer could have improved even more, but he chose not to. 

I agree with just about everything PFren has said in this thread regarding the relative strength of Carlsen and Fischer. Fischer was truly great. He inspired future generations, including Kasparov and Carlsen. Carlsen has committed to memory just about every important game Fischer ever played. 

Kasparov and Carlsen are better than Fischer in large measure because they stand on the shoulder of giants, including Fischer himself. They studied and learned from Fischer's games. But yes, they have indeed surpassed Fischer at his best.

no idea  

I can't agree with this.  Had Fischer played in the computer age he'd probably have reached 2850+ himself.

CimH, said it best, my final thought on this thread. I would like to thank all who posted their knowledge to this discussion. I personally learned much informative information concerning the subject. I am from the past returning to a passion. I do hope we all agree that time frame of play has a major impact on this discussion. There is a small value to that, with a major impact. It has been my pleasure to see this discussion not turn into an arguement. Just many people with far more knowledge than me talking about someone I liked. Take care all 

Never count the old boys out. So says my avatar. Well said, but that attachment really was  not needed LOL. All I was trying to say was from an old idea........An Argument is an exchange of ignorance, but a discussion is an exchange of knowledge.

"he had it all given to him on silver platter, hes had every advantage --- Thats Why PUTIN should hold a World Championship in Russia, put massive pressure on him"

Carlsen won a title match in Russia last year. His 2015 is considered to be very disappointing, but that after he won three top tournaments and finished second in a fourth, apart from winning the rapid title again. If Carlsen's latest predecessors Anand or Kramnik had had a year like that when they were World Champions it would have been the without comparison best year they ever had as title holders. So his results have been rather good considering that he isn't yet 25 years old.

OK...

IDK did you see Carlsen throw that pen?

Only Time will tell! His paly is not done yet. Let him go, play,play,play.

So whats up now? Is Magnus in a transition? Trust me folks I'm just a small can of hot ash on this subject. But I do know what players may or may not go through in the mental aspect of any game. As far as Bobby, yeah I think that if the time periods were the same and equating from then to now, and all aspects equal I do think that (Not saying Bobby would beat him) But I will say it would be one heck of a Match. On the other side of the fence, Time off between the two and then meet .............."I vote Bobby". Sorry just my thought.  

i would like to see carlsen fall behind in a world championship match to see if he could come back like kasparov did against vishy in 1995.

I don't know why Bobby fischer is so hyped on this forum, most probably because majority of people on this forum are Americans.

But get the reality check, most of the people who are claiming that fischer is the greatest have not even analysed single of his game, I'd advice them to run through some of his games on fritz or any other engines, you will see that his moves weren't always that accurate.

As far as I think, it would be much easier for Carlsen to beat fischer in his prime than beating players like Kramnik, Kasparov, Anand in their prime, because even modern computers say the moves made by them in 1995 or so were very precise, same can't be said about fischer though. 

maybe fischer is revered because it was a time before engines took the game of chess away. :P

because even modern computers say the moves made by them in 1995 or so were very precise, same can't be said about fischer though. 

"modern computers say"....OMG. There are many players to compare with against with whoever you choose. In the line of players of the "Greatest Plyers" of all time" Bobby will be on the list no matter what anyone else says. Bobby greates of the greatest?, probably not. Still yet in my opinion he was one to be reckoned with when he was on. BTW, Magnus if off for now. I still myself am curious to see what happens next. Never count a good player out. 

maybe fischer is revered because it was a time before engines took the game of chess away. :P

Not only Fischer, and that was a well said statement Thank You!

Considering that he took on the whole dominant Soviet chess machine without much help and that his excellent tournament results against his peers showed a lot more wins than losses and he had very few draws, he was definitely one of the best ever. With Magnus and modern chess the world champion is now a computer program. GM's train against computers and learn from them. Could Bobby at his best defeat Magnus at his best in a 20 game match? That's a question with no known answer.

Computers have done a service to us in showing that even the best chess players can lose to a world-class championship computer program. It is a reality check to our egos and shows us that there is always room for improvement.

Considering that he took on the whole dominant Soviet chess machine without much help and that his excellent tournament results against his peers showed a lot more wins than losses and he had very few draws, he was definitely one of the best ever. With Magnus and modern chess the world champion is now a computer program. GM's train against computers and learn from them. Could Bobby at his best defeat Magnus at his best in a 20 game match? That's a question with no known answer.

Computers have done a service to us in showing that even the best chess players can lose to a world-class championship computer program. It is a reality check to our egos and shows us that there is always room for improvement.

Another well said staement. I hope that we can put this to rest. We can talk about any player we wish and yet still there will always be this written arguement/discussion without a definitive ending. OUR MINDS ARE THE COMPUTERS. Lets keep thinking in that direction! 

I just ran a computer simulation. Bobby beat Magnus 7 times with 13 draws. Magnus was better in more complex positions but kept taking the pawns in the opening and refusing to allow any tension. I will try another simulation but I think the result speaks for itself.

that was funny!