Can Anyone Become Grandmaster?

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Doggy_Style

p.s. Changed his username to Adreline_Junkie:

http://www.chess.com/members/view/Adreline_Junkie

plutonia
Kingpatzer wrote:

The person missing the point is you. I made a very specific and direct claim: non-native speakers of a language who learn the language after they reach their mid-20s or later will almost always remain distinguishable from native speakers. It is a claim backed up by a ton of research. If you want, I can start citing it for you. 

You are arguing that an adult can achieve fluency. I have not denied that nor have I made that argument. You have agreed that you yourself are distinguishable from a native speaker of the language you learned. 

Whatever strawman you want to argue against, have at it. But you've actually repeatedly conceded my point.
 

 

You were clearly referring to the command of the language.

You said, and I quote from post #525:

There are some idioms, expressions, pronunciations, or what-not that will keep them flumoxed (sic.) for life.

 

In my original post I showed you that I'm not flummoxed by idioms, expressions, pronunciations, and what-nots. Attacking a strawman? I demolished your post.

Then you started using the pretex of the accent, but the accent has nothing to do with the language (and that's what we were talking about) or with the semiotics (that your argument was originally referring to).

Conflagration_Planet
Doggy_Style wrote:

p.s. Changed his username to Adreline_Junkie:

http://www.chess.com/members/view/Adreline_Junkie

Oh. I guess he was muzzled, cause you can't click on any of his threads, though they're all still there.

Doggy_Style
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
Doggy_Style wrote:

p.s. Changed his username to Adreline_Junkie:

http://www.chess.com/members/view/Adreline_Junkie

Oh. I guess he was muzzled, cause you can't click on any of his threads, though they're all still there.

Yup, muzzled.

Conflagration_Planet

Probably a good idea. Smile

royalbishop

Funny people will say what you can not be.....

When you achieve the goal either they are quiet or same your a still a bum or not good at that level. In this day in age where they have so many things you can eat or drink and things they can attach to your body it is all naturally possible. It just may not be ethical.

pdve

yes, anyone can become a grandmaster as long as they can get the three norms required by FIDE

royalbishop

Or jus.....t  GM pdve and now your a GM.

madhacker
LoekBergman wrote:
Conflagration_Planet wrote:

Why was the "Can I be a GM within a year?" thread deleted?

The first thing I would check for is if the account of the OP is still active.

Probably he got banned for using some "rapid improvement techniques" to try to obtain his goal.

Kingpatzer
plutonia wrote:
Kingpatzer wrote:

The person missing the point is you. I made a very specific and direct claim: non-native speakers of a language who learn the language after they reach their mid-20s or later will almost always remain distinguishable from native speakers. It is a claim backed up by a ton of research. If you want, I can start citing it for you. 

You are arguing that an adult can achieve fluency. I have not denied that nor have I made that argument. You have agreed that you yourself are distinguishable from a native speaker of the language you learned. 

Whatever strawman you want to argue against, have at it. But you've actually repeatedly conceded my point.
 

 

You were clearly referring to the command of the language.

You said, and I quote from post #525:

There are some idioms, expressions, pronunciations, or what-not that will keep them flumoxed (sic.) for life.

 

In my original post I showed you that I'm not flummoxed by idioms, expressions, pronunciations, and what-nots. Attacking a strawman? I demolished your post.

Then you started using the pretex of the accent, but the accent has nothing to do with the language (and that's what we were talking about) or with the semiotics (that your argument was originally referring to).

The prior sentence, which you omit, makes the claim. The sentence you claim expands on the claim, but is not itself the topic sentence of the paragraph. But please, carry on. 

Quoted in full, the paragraph reads:

There's ample evidence that people who learn languages later in life (after about age 20-25) for the first time will almost always remain distinguishable from a native speaker even with a lifetime of total immersion. There are some idioms, expressions, pronunciations, or what-not that will keep them flumoxed for life. 

Now, you can continue arguing all you want. But you are not arguing against my claim. You are arguing against a strawman.

astronomer999
Kingpatzer wrote:

Quoted in full, the paragraph reads:

There's ample evidence that people who learn languages later in life (after about age 20-25) for the first time will almost always remain distinguishable from a native speaker even with a lifetime of total immersion. There are some idioms, expressions, pronunciations, or what-not that will keep them flumoxed for life. 

Now, you can continue arguing all you want. But you are not arguing against my claim. You are arguing against a strawman.

There was an article in New Scientist a few days back about adult language learning that posited the opposite idea. The claim was that children get special attention as they learn to speak from the adults around them. Adult learners who get similar attention also learn easily.

Not that your average English student then goes on to be a great poet

Kingpatzer

I believe you're speaking about the speed of learning languages. I'm speaking about becoming indistinguishable from a native speaker. 
 

astronomer999

I think the article went as far as accents

ronoy_mes

go to this site

www.thecardbase.weebly.com

astronomer999

Actually, it's rare for adult native speakers to maintain fluency in their own language. Just pay attention to what journalists and politicians spew out of their mouths. The syntax is often wrong, (amusingly pilloried in a newspaper sitcom called "Lowdown" by the Indian subeditor character).

My personal latest observation of illiteracy is the apparent inability of professional talkers to distinguish between singular and plural objects of their verbs. ie "are" has become the default article, 'though "is" seems to be acceptable to denote plural objects.

So back to the point about being a GM. If you can't speak and write with perfect grammar (ie following the logic of the language), you almost certainly won't be able to push your pieces around the board with the very high level of logic that is required to win at GM level

AlCzervik

I think the real question is, can a Chinese person become a GM if they start to learn Latin after the age of 35?

astronomer999

Of course, but they might have to use a dictionary during their games

royalbishop
[COMMENT DELETED]
ernestosim01

Can't we be GMs by using our native tongue?

royalbishop

 ???? which language do you speek

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