Can White win this?

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Avatar of Tantale

Avatar of JamieKowalski

I can't see how Black will stop the A pawn.

Avatar of Tantale

a8 is not of the colour of the bishop!

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Avatar of VULPES_VULPES

Never mind. White can't win.

Avatar of Tantale

Show me how!

Avatar of mauriciolopezsr

Yes, it can 1) Kb1; Kxp 2) Kc2; Kb6  3) Bh4 Kf5 4) Kd3 Ke6 5) Kc4 Kd6

6) Kb5 winning!  if 6) ...Kd6 7) Bg3+ cutting off the king's advance to the queen side; any other move by black it is followed by Kb6 and white gains control of the queening square, then it is a matter of capturing the A pawn which isn't going anywhere and pushincg the a pawn to queening!

Avatar of JamieKowalski

How about this?



Avatar of Tantale

The first move was not obvious!

Avatar of JamieKowalski

If Black refuses the bishop:



By the way, is this a game of yours, or an existing puzzle?

Avatar of mauriciolopezsr
JamieKowalski wrote:

How about this? How about  2) ... Kg6 instead of D5?! D5 is a waste of time which is critical in this end game?! for instance Kb2, Kf7; if Bd6, Ke6 followed by D5 and the king finds its way to the queening square; anything else Kd8 and the King makes it the Queening square!

 



Avatar of JamieKowalski
mauriciolopezsr wrote:

How about  2) ... Kg6 instead of D5?! D5 is a waste of time which is critical in this end game?! for instance Kb2, Kf7; if Bd6, Ke6 followed by D5 and the king finds its way to the queening square; anything else Kd8 and the King makes it the Queening square! 

I don't think it's a waste of time. It is in the way of the Black king's path to the A8 square. Otherwise he must decide to go in front of it or behind it, and unless I'm wrong, White makes it to the corner either way. 

Avatar of Math0t
JamieKowalski wrote:

How about this?

 



That's a draw. The black king walks to a8, if the white king tries to prevent this black will push the d-pawn and force white to go after it (freeing the way to a8 for the black king).

Avatar of Math0t

I think white should try to reach a position like this:

(Edit: and then white can move the king towards the action and put black in zugzwang. And it looks like white is just in time to achieve this position.)

Avatar of MrEdCollins

mathot, that position is a draw with White or Black to move.  (Black can reach the a8 corner.)

You can see for yourself with any engine that has access to the 5 piece tablebase set, or the shredder tablebase website:

http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/endgame-database.html

Avatar of Math0t

@MrEdCollins: yeah, you are right, that was a mistake.

I will not use an engine or tablebase (yet) though, it spoils the fun Smile

Avatar of JamieKowalski

"That's a draw. The black king walks to a8, if the white king tries to prevent this black will push the d-pawn and force white to go after it (freeing the way to a8 for the black king)."

If you mean after 1. Bb2 axb2+, no, that is not a draw. The tablebase at the shredderchess site Mr. Collins links to shows it as a win for White in 16 moves. White beats Black to A8. After 2. Kxb2 Kxh5, White has 8 different moves that win by force, a4 and Kc3 being the shortest.


Avatar of Math0t

@JamieKowalski: I meant the final position in #8 with black to move is a draw. I hadn't noticed you already posted a solution in a later post (edit: actually that's not the solution after all, just another variation).

Avatar of mauriciolopezsr
JamieKowalski wrote:
mauriciolopezsr wrote:

How about  2) ... Kg6 instead of D5?! D5 is a waste of time which is critical in this end game?! for instance Kb2, Kf7; if Bd6, Ke6 followed by D5 and the king finds its way to the queening square; anything else Kd8 and the King makes it the Queening square! 

I don't think it's a waste of time. It is in the way of the Black king's path to the A8 square. Otherwise he must decide to go in front of it or behind it, and unless I'm wrong, White makes it to the corner either way. 

Forgot how to count!? it is a waste of time and puts the black king a tempo behind the white king! after Kf7, if White keep moving the king, Ke8 followed by Kd8, black beats the white King to the queening square.

If after Ke8 white plays Be7, Blacks takes the bishop and the freed Queen pawn should guarantee the draw. i don't use engines analyze the old fashioned way like Bobby used to do!

Avatar of Math0t

@JamieKowalski: I took another look, and in the variation you post in #8, white has to play 4.a4 to win the game. 4.Kd4? is not needed and leads to a draw because the black king will be just in time at a8 (white's king can't prevent that due to blacks pawn).

Actually 3.a4 seems even more to the point (although 3.Kc3 does not giv away the win).

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