Can you tell if a player is using a db / chess program?

I personally never use a DB or engine in any of my coresspondance chess games, and have created a new account just so I can play in another tournament (I'm a cheap skate ;) )

I specialise in the english opening as white or the modern (and couple others) as black, and currently up against 1100-1400 players.

Majority of players seem to have little knowledge of how to play against these openings, and I can quickly gain an advantage. Others, however seem to play extremely accurately until move 10 or so. I thought perhaps they use this opening themselves, or play against it, or in a group. Checked their games, and amongst all the blunders I've yet to see them play an opponent who does anything that the d/e moves, or move a knight. I'm guessing they refer to a db when facing a response they're unfamiliar with.

Against 2000+ players, I find its harder to tell, as their experience usually means they know the best book moves off by heart for most (common) openings till move 12 or so.

This isn't a moan against players who use a database (although engines I do strongly disagree with) as thats been done to death on here, just wondering whether you as a player can tell if you're playing purely against a human, or a human with help? And if you do, do you do bizarre moves on purpose like me just to throw them? 

Sure I can tell if my opponent is using a DB if they choose lines that greatly favor them in my DB ie the variation they're playing has a 75% winning chance for their side for instance. Being a rather mechanically-minded knucklehead I almost never deviate from past games but instead rely on following games that favor my side of the board, which usually results in discovering (the hard way) that my opponent has come up with a TN I can't refute.

I know a lot of openings. Once, I played as far as 25 moves, OTB, following Kasparov games. My opponent took a long time to think, I didn't, because I knew the game. So, if I know all the best moves, don't accuse me hehe. But here I play fast games only (currently 5/0) and I don't always follow the book.

If you play always using engine, it is difficult to tell because your skill is consistent. But don't ever try the bullet/blitz, because your true level will shows.

If your true level is 1500 and you use engine at least 30% of your game, expert players will know because you cannot have such a huge inconsistency in skill. Unless, you set the engine to play at 1800, or limit the calculation depth.

The problem is if the engine is used only in CRITICAL situations/positions here and there.

If your true level is 1500 and you use engine against 2000+ players they will know (they will review your games). But if your level is low, you better not accuse anybody. False accusation usually comes from low rated players.

But I have been falsly accused by 1800-2200 players. It can be understood because my playing skill is unique. Sometimes I play like an idiot but sometimes I play well hehehe. Look at the highest rating I won against in my bullet and blitz games. They are above 2000. In classic games they can be 2600! I just cannot consistently play well because I'm a blunder maker (even after a very long thinking I can suddently pick a move that I have previously considered as a blunder).

Yeah agree, I find the less common the openings, the less chance the player has book knowledge, hence I never play the center pawns. 

Like you say, its extremely obvious if they use a db or engine, as they can be 1300 on blitz, and 1800 or so on turn based. If a player really knew the moves off by heart, I reckon the 2 ratings would be a lot closer.

I think you would need to look at a series of games; lots of us who are reasonably competent (on a good day) can occasionally play a game which only scores 1 or 2 'inaccuracies' when it's computer-analysed afterwards. I've played I think 3 quite complex games like that, and a couple of 'perfect' games, both of which were short tactical punishings of opponent errors. So if you looked only at a few games you would be able to argue that I must be cheating with an engine. But look at my games overall and it's obvious that I'm just as capable of playing badly. I do use the Game Explorer a lot, so I don't (usually) make gross errors in the opening.

That's not unbelievable, I just don't know who would believe it

It's certainly possible  - I read somewhere about GM Bronstein giving a simul in the USSR and playing a draw in the Nimzo-Indian against one player. When he congratulated the player on getting a draw, the reply was 'But Grandmaster, don't you remember? You played this game against Korchnoi!' The guy had memorised Bronstein's play as black and couldn't, reasonably enough, think of improvements, so followed it.

May be some 2000+ players :D

If you knew openings a lot, you must know which line was it. Which opening is not difficult to guess because there are only 2 possible openings

And your opponent memorised, and played the first 25 moves of a grandmaster game as well? I'm sure somebody believes this, I mean there are a lot of unraptured people out there looking for something new to believe in

Hehehehehe. It surprised me too. I believed he didn't know its a grandmaster game. He must be a good player then.

But it is not a game where you need to memorize a game in order to follow it precisely. I considered it as the best possible moves from both sides, and ended with a draw.

When I choose an opening, I choose a role model and study his games. Usually there is a main game where both sides play the "best" moves. Games like this are usually drawish. I have tried analyze and improve my repertoire but it always is a draw. But I decided to follow the drawish lines (my repertoire) and let my opponent to deviate.

Once I played a turn based game with 2200+ opponent (the highest rated player in the tournament section). During the game I told my opponent that I was following Kasparov game and that the game was drawish. I know which game it was but I didn't know about him, whether he knew as well, or he just used engine. At the end of the drawish grandmaster game he deviated by giving me a pawn advantage. But later I decided to set a fortress and just shuffled my pieces. He didn't want to take another risk and accept a draw.

That is imo valid. I prefer that approach in order to train myself. But in a real game, I will follow my repertoire and take advantage from my opponent deviation.

If you study opening, you have to understand why the move is chosen and why not the other. I have never read an opening book that deeply explains the "secrets" of an opening. May be because GMs do not want to let others know how they think in an opening. I prefer to reveal the secret myself by studying GM games and analyzing with an engine.

Playing by the book seems boring or unattractive to many players. But for me, I consider the real chess game is the end game, so I don't mind if I have to really "start" playing after having less pieces on the board.

Hi everybody,

Can anyone tell me about openings database? Or how I can use them,

Thank you in advance.

I play the london system as white - the most double edged opening I know of; as often you play the game uncastled.
Not many people play it, and not many know how to properly play against it.
I find, when playing this against somebody who is using a database in correspondence chess, it's not usually a problem, as there is such little room to develop an advantage for black and it's so easy to play with.

I feel most Chess players are thinkers, and when you look at your opponent's live chess like at 1100+, but rated at almost 2000 on line chess, can it be??

  Well on line chess has the analyzer board is available before you make a move and you have days to play with different out comes, also for payee members you can look at suggested lines for "openings" play much deeper then non-payees! Pays to be a member  But one thing about using the analyzer board, if you are a 1200 rated player, its not too likely you will come up with a 1800 and higher move even if you spent days thinking!

   The way I would lke to use on line chess is to meet my opponent at the same time on line chess and play the game to the end, thats provided you do not take an hour per move. If you want to recess and come back together at another agreed time, great.  You have time to chat, drink your coffee, or beer lolo etc. Not sure if this it typical, but I can study chess or play a game sipping a beer and come up with better moves then not! 

@Woodthumper - I do the same thing with the Online Chess: no Game Explorer, no Opening Books.

I find that is the best way to practice for OTB play, which is why I play Online Chess in the first place.  If I wanted to be primarily a correspondence player, however, I would not hesitate to use those resources.

I notice a funny phenomena: a 1500 player who uses Explorer and openings DB will tend to be WORSE at tactics than one who doesn't because the Explorer has helped him gain that rating against guys like me who don't use those resources. 

It is at the point where if a 1500 is playing perfect responses against my opening, I know that I can probably wipe the board with him in the middle game.  However, if a 1500 is bungling his opening, then WATCH OUT becasue he got his rating by tactics and the middle game will be tough! 

This was very well put, I could not agree more.

I find because the rating system on this site is dubious to say the least, that it is a good place to test stuff since your not really losing anything but a bit of pride perhaps. I have been a tactician for many years now,ex club player ex corres player. Poor health means I cannot keep the play up as much as I would like. A few things I still abide by though, and I have an agreement with one site where we cannot use databases or computer programs of any sort, to do so would see us expelled from the site and that I am not prepared to risk that.

Out of interest what is the rule on consulting a book at that site? I imagine an openings book like NCO can be seen as a form of database only printed on paper...

No Cheating or Computer Help

You can NEVER use chess programs (Chessmaster, Fritz, etc) to analyze current ongoing games unless specifically permitted (such as a computer tournament, etc). The only type of computer assistance allowed is games databases for opening lines in Turn-based Chess and Vote Chess. You cannot receive ANY outside assistance on Live Chess games.

Easy. If he beats me, he must be cheating.