cheating on chess.com

the last time i visited the playchess server, there were maybe 5000 people logged in, out of those around a 100 were using the engine room....doesnt sound like a majority to me!

What's a chess engine?

That was the worst picture "joke" I've ever done. I hated myself the whole time I was putting that together, most of all when I had to figure out the correct spacebar length to position the king over the smokestack.

Staggerlee asks what a chess engine is, and my first instinct is to make a train engine with a king piece above it. Yep.

/my parents must be so proud|
//meanwhile, in Mubai...

I was following this discussion since the very beginning. I read all the posts by those that support the use of chess-programs and those who don't. I personally line up with the latter ones because, although I am very new in this site,  I understood and agreed with those rules chess.com requests you to comply the moment you register. If you don't like them then don't register. Simple. So, going to the point, cheating (using a chess program) during a game is not allowed (and eric had mentioned it very clearly). 

Chess is a game with rules and if we want to play chess then we should follow those basic rules. Just imagine we decide not to obey the basic movement-rules of the game, for any reason whatsoever. That's the end, no more chess, it's something else because we decided no to follow the basic rules. Simple.

Finally, I have not the authority to judge or decide who uses a program and who does not. I think thas is a task appointed to the Admin guys, who are doing very well and have all the right to kick out any cheater or rule-breaker that enters this site trying to mess it up. It is like the laws in the normal world: you break them, you go to jail. Simple.

I think this site cannot be a place without elemental order, simple rules are necessary and they were already presented to all of us (in the case we took our time reading them). Those who disagree go somewhere else to cheat as much as you like. In the meantime, eric, keep on keeping clean this site from anyone you consider is trying to dirt it with their garbage.

CIAO
REBELDE

Well to use an engine or not should be left to an individual..i'd anyday prefer to loose to a true player than to an engine, but hey you get to learn every game anyway!..i download all PGNs and analyze it..i do make on an average 2 fatal blunders a game ( a lot) but my opponents so far have managed to do about the same..so i don't have any complaints at all..In the end the best man emerges stronger and far wiser...

How do you cheat?

LOL great chess engine pic.  Looks possibly fake...... but I can't back that up with any discernible proof since the photo blending job was done so skillfully.  Rael you gotta admit this thread has taken turn for the better over the last half dozen pages.  I think we are getting somewhere with this.

btw stagerlee by chess engine I meant chess program

I'm all for brainstorming that truly contributes to a viable solution, but in this case I really think that I'm happy just like things were. Maybe it's because I've been a member for over a year now, so I've seen these threads come and go, and all my initial vehemence has died down, and I've found myself in a nice tempo with the site - I don't play as many games as I once did, nor stress out as much as I once might've.

I honestly think the error in the thinking is that so much can be done my the higher-ups as far as how this site is configured, and that SO much can be done as far as our personal approaches.

The old, tried and true is still the best method: love chess, love the site, start to play people, chat if you want to, you'll make friends, settle into things - and if you have the occasional odd internet encounter with someone who seemed shady and you didn't like, move on, be happy.

These thread are ultimately counterproductive - they seemingly speculate on ways to solve everything which actually fixating upon, and generating anxiety about, the thing they hope to oppose.

The same thing can happen in real life relationships between lovers - if one becomes too scarily and unreasonably jealous (terrified of cheating), this actually becomes a negative nurturing, and generates confusion and unwarranted upset when the best course of action never changed from the beginning -

have fun.

And don't worry too much. If you're perceptive, and just enjoy yourself, you might get beaten once by a person who seeminly played oddly and never chatted, and you move on.

The truth is that FOR THE MOST PART PEOPLE ARE TRUSTWORTHY, AND THEY'RE JUST WHAT THEY PURPORT TO BE. This is the reason the founder of Amazon.com claimed as the cause of their success - that people are fundamentally good.

I ask that most people let go of the stress. Let this not become your central focus, your main energy here. Above all, relax, have fun, play with the friends you know well. Let your competitive natures relent somewhat, put the energy into enjoying the boards you have open before you.

Let not the fear of lurking possibility ruin the enjoyment you are having, and let that enjoyment reassert itself as the main aspect of what you're doing here.

It is easy to go on a paranoid witch-hunt, what is more sensible is to remind yourself that no amount of wacky site restructuring on the part of the admins are going to change the ultimate fact that there will always be some miniscule percentage of percieved impurity.

Be well.

Much_Afraid> I'm guessing you [rajlich] were one of these "misunderstood" players who decided you needed an engine to play others because your own brain couldn't hack it.

The real Vasik Rajlich is the IM who created Rybka. Of course, this being the Internet and his account unverified, I've no idea if he's really who he claims to be.

Lol, I love that he joined just yesterday, and his avatar is the same picture as his wiki, and the information in his profile is coroborrated here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasik_Rajlich

/can I have a free licensed copy of your popular program, Mr. Rajilich?
//it would be pretty awesome if it were actually him, though, eh?
///also, even thought I think everything should stay the same - he makes some clear and well-reasoned thoughts, we all have to admit that

I'm sympathetic to the case you're making as evidenced by my prior posts but I think you should tread carefully when making these kinds of statements because you're coming awfully close to libeling people.  I think as a general rule most of the top players don't fit the description you've outlined and the ones that do can't defend themselves after their reputations have been fed to the lions.  I wish it wasn't so but a vague implication is all it takes to destroy a reputation.

Rajlich, i have nothing against "freestyle" chess, engines and engine users, but it must be clearly stated before the game starts and both players must agree. This is not cheating. The rule here on this site also says it must be an unrated game, probably because rating here was created to evaluate non-engine play. I don't care about rules on other sites, but they mostly have separate rating lists. The key is prevent mixing real chessplayers and engine users together.

When nothing is stated, then it should go without saying that the game is without engine or other player consultation. Engine use (or other player consultation) without opponent's agreement or even knowledge IS cheating. Simple. But it is somehow fascinating that engine users still try to ignore these rules and people like you defend them. People knowlingly breaking rules and fair play must be kicked off without any sympathy.

Some people didn't understand english well or didn't read rules of this site thoroughly. Mandelshtam probably belongs here. But anyway: engine use without letting opponent know is unfair anywhere and anytime IMO.

Chess.com was created in the first place for real players who want to play other real players. Engine users are already tolerated here for casual unrated games. I think it is healthy. I don't like the idea chess.com becoming dubious freestyle server and real players playing here minor casual games.

This is an interesting discussion. If players do cheat they are only cheating themselves. There cannot be any satisfaction at all in winning because you have a programme that tells you what to move. The real enjoyment is being totally involved at a deeply personal level in a primeval struggle for mastery within the rules.  But it is the struggle itself that  quickens the intellect and stretches the imagination and fills one with  satisfaction. Those who cheat do not appreciate or love the game itself. I feel sorry for them, ad, of course, those whom they are trying to fool.

As annoyed as I am at rajlich's off-topic arguments (considering that he said he is trying to change the rule here at chess.com), he is nowhere close to libeling anyone. He would have to identify specific people in order to actually libel them.

i'm sorry, but i have to chime in on comments like this. i strongly support open dialogues in forums about pretty much anything (as long as it's not violent or hateful towards others). stating that discussing an issue (at length or repeatedly) is counter-productive is completely absurd.

person 1: "hey, i don't agree with this policy on this site."
person 2: "well it's already been discussed on this site, so better to not discuss it further since that's just counter-productive. let's just never speak of it again."

now that's a good way to deal with debatable issues (please note my sarcasm).

Your logic is peccable but I applaud the result.

Achmatova, if you are in fact serious about returning and starting over without the use of engines I would urge you not to leave.  If you are being harassed, assuming you mean outside of this thread, you have a couple of avenues available to you including reporting the harassment as abuse, or even closing your new account and quietly opening yet another one unannounced.

The intent is not to drive players who are committed to playing by the rules away, but to ensure that there is awareness and agreement with respect to what those rules are.  I applaud your willingness to come forward under your previous account with a mia-culpa and think that starting over with this new account was absolutely the right course.  Anyone who can find fault enough in your actions to continue to harass you even in the face of your comittment to abide by the rules of the site should think hard about why they'd take steps to discourage others from taking similar corrective action.

Well said, David, second the thought.   All in favor, say Aye.

while i disagree with achmatova about using computers on Chess.com, but as long as he does not use them while playing here then i hope he stays. he's a strong player and has interesting opinions. running him out because he has different opinions isn't right.

do stay, do play, and if people are harrassing you, then let us know. if this topic is bothering you then i would un-TRACK it and leave it alone! :O