Chess.com Ratings are a JOKE - Chess Forums - Page 10

llama36

Jul 1, 2022

0

#181

PawnTsunami wrote:

David wrote:

It's actually reading this thread and seeing @PawnTsunami's detailed refutation of your opinion about @Kowarenai's games that has disproved your assertion LOL

I actually went through his games while watching the coverage of Round 11 yesterday. His actual playing strength is about what I would expect from a ~1400 level player OTB, so him getting to the 1400-1800 range was very quick. The reason it takes him so long to move passed that is because he plays for cheap tricks. When the tricks work, he gets a quick win. When his opponents are paying attention, he picks up losses (even to players whose rating is much lower than his own). The kind of crap he is playing works in 3+0 or 1+0 games because many times guys are premoving in the opening and frankly, he gets lucky (i.e. one of his more recent games where White was playing a KIA setup and premoved Bg2 when K had played Bh3 the previous move).

1000 points is enormous though... he's definitely better than 1400 OTB. He just has a bad mindset or something. I haven't seen his OTB games, but you can't be 2500 in blitz by playing 1-2 move threats over and over... that'd be more like 1300 blitz or something.

PawnTsunami

Jul 1, 2022

0

#182

Steven-ODonoghue wrote:

You think Kowarenai is 1400 OTB strength but has 2500 online peaks because he plays for nothing but cheap tricks every game? What?

Even for the absolute youngest and best blitz specialists the biggest gap you would expect between an OTB rating and online blitz is about 500-600 points.

I have played Kowarenai before, he doesn't play rubbish, actually a lot of the games he wins are grinds where he slowly outplays his opponent (many of whom are titled players).

1) He actually IS ~1400 OTB.

2) I have yet to see a game where he was outplaying a strong opponent (1800+). I see him making sub-par moves quickly and setting up cheap traps (i.e. ones that make his position worse if his opponent handles them properly)

The rating gap discrepancy is actually what intrigued me, as it is highly unusual to see such a gap.

PawnTsunami

Jul 1, 2022

0

#183

CooloutAC wrote:

I gotta say man, no offense, but everything you have claimed throughout this thread couldn't be more wrong. It makes no sense and is so far fetched. its literally nuts. First of all you still keep trying to correlate OTB classical with online blitz. I have a hard time reading past that lol.

2400 blitz with cheap tricks? Thats probably because thats all you think blitz is...lol

No offense, but you have proven time and time again that you have no clue what you are talking about. One day, you will look back at these comments and think, "Man, how was I such an idiot?"

llama36

Jul 1, 2022

0

#184

PawnTsunami wrote:

Steven-ODonoghue wrote:

You think Kowarenai is 1400 OTB strength but has 2500 online peaks because he plays for nothing but cheap tricks every game? What?

Even for the absolute youngest and best blitz specialists the biggest gap you would expect between an OTB rating and online blitz is about 500-600 points.

I have played Kowarenai before, he doesn't play rubbish, actually a lot of the games he wins are grinds where he slowly outplays his opponent (many of whom are titled players).

1) He actually IS ~1400 OTB.

2) I have yet to see a game where he was outplaying a strong opponent (1800+). I see him making sub-par moves quickly and setting up cheap traps (i.e. ones that make his position worse if his opponent handles them properly)

The rating gap discrepancy is actually what intrigued me, as it is highly unusual to see such a gap.

Ok, I saw a few games in his blog... falling for 1-2 move tactics himself... I don't really get it. I can only assume his mind isn't in the game for one reason or another.

llama36

Jul 1, 2022

0

#185

CooloutAC wrote:

You are going even further, you are comparing two completely different devices and time controls lol.

But the gap from OTB to chess.com blitz is pretty well known. As Steven says for blitz kids it can be as high as 500 or so points. Over 1000 is definitely strange... and the simple tactics he lost material to in the few games I looked at were also strange. He was definitely not focused for some reason (maybe he has social anxiety, or a disability or etc).

I played one guy who was an amputee and war veteran... he literally took pain medication in the middle of our game.

ShouldBreezi

Jul 1, 2022

0

#186

OP is 1100. Let that sink it before reading the other things he has to say

PawnTsunami

Jul 1, 2022

0

#187

nMsALpg wrote:

PawnTsunami wrote:

David wrote:

It's actually reading this thread and seeing @PawnTsunami's detailed refutation of your opinion about @Kowarenai's games that has disproved your assertion LOL

I actually went through his games while watching the coverage of Round 11 yesterday. His actual playing strength is about what I would expect from a ~1400 level player OTB, so him getting to the 1400-1800 range was very quick. The reason it takes him so long to move passed that is because he plays for cheap tricks. When the tricks work, he gets a quick win. When his opponents are paying attention, he picks up losses (even to players whose rating is much lower than his own). The kind of crap he is playing works in 3+0 or 1+0 games because many times guys are premoving in the opening and frankly, he gets lucky (i.e. one of his more recent games where White was playing a KIA setup and premoved Bg2 when K had played Bh3 the previous move).

1000 points is enormous though... he's definitely better than 1400 OTB. He just has a bad mindset or something. I haven't seen his OTB games, but you can't be 2500 in blitz by playing 1-2 move threats over and over... that'd be more like 1300 blitz or something.

Interestingly enough, during the timeframe in question (Nov 2021) is when he finally broke 1200 OTB (classical - playing G/25+5) and didn't break 1500 in OTB blitz until the end of December 2021.

Like I said, I was intrigued by the rating gap disparity. It is highly unusual to say the least. He played in a classical (G/25+5) event in June and lost to a 1200 in the first round. Those are the kind of things you don't expect to see from someone with a 2200+ online blitz rating. Though, whatever club he is playing at had a LOT of provisional players. He has played 2-3 in almost every event he has played in this year.

PawnTsunami

Jul 1, 2022

0

#188

CooloutAC wrote:

PawnTsunami wrote:

Steven-ODonoghue wrote:

You think Kowarenai is 1400 OTB strength but has 2500 online peaks because he plays for nothing but cheap tricks every game? What?

Even for the absolute youngest and best blitz specialists the biggest gap you would expect between an OTB rating and online blitz is about 500-600 points.

I have played Kowarenai before, he doesn't play rubbish, actually a lot of the games he wins are grinds where he slowly outplays his opponent (many of whom are titled players).

1) He actually IS ~1400 OTB.

2) I have yet to see a game where he was outplaying a strong opponent (1800+). I see him making sub-par moves quickly and setting up cheap traps (i.e. ones that make his position worse if his opponent handles them properly)

The rating gap discrepancy is actually what intrigued me, as it is highly unusual to see such a gap.

1) I don't think steve was questioning that. 1400 OTB is nothing to scoff at.

2) To quote Levon Aronian " Blitz is not about making the most accurate move, its about posing the hardest questions to your opponent" I guess you call that cheap tricks and smoke and mirrors. You are the type of snobby dude who doesn't consider blitz "real" chess. Which is why you keep talking about OTB classical as if its the same thing and relatable.

I don't see why such a gap is weird. First of all can you link his OTB stats cause i'm curious to look at them? Secondly, i have an 800 gap in my rapid on chess.com vs Lichess. Because Its two different systems and two different playerbases. But you are going even further, you are comparing two completely different chess devices and two different couldn't be further from each other time controls lol.

I am not going to link to the kid's stats. You can look them up yourself.

The fact that you think there is not something odd about a 1400 OTB classical/1500 OTB blitz player racking up master scalps online just demonstrates your lack of understanding just how skillful masters are. It isn't your fault, you simply have not been exposed to them and cannot fathom why that situation is peculiar. (And just for clarification, I am not saying he is doing anything fishy - simply that the assumption his playing strength is on par with masters and yet he struggles OTB is rather interesting).

Steven-ODonoghue

Jul 1, 2022

0

#189

If Kowarenai played 100 rated OTB games in a good mindset and tried hard to win every game he would come out rated at least 1900 USCF, most likely higher. That is what I believe.

If he really is only 1400 OTB strength and 1000 points stronger online, then he must be considered the greatest bullet and blitz specialist who has ever lived, and second place wouldn't be close.

learningthemoves

Jul 1, 2022

0

#190

CooloutAC wrote:

learningthemoves wrote:

CooloutAC wrote:

learningthemoves wrote:

Here's some food for thought.

Many stronger rated players tell you to play stronger opponents to get better,

but many lower rated players don't like the ego beatings they can take at a higher level, even though it can help them improve.

You can do the Glicko math and say, "If I raise the opponent rating strength a couple hundred points in the settings,

I might lose a couple more every ten games but I'll gain more rating points as long as I

win at least x number of games for every ten played."

Then you don't focus so much on winning every game as long as you reach your next rating milestone.

So maybe you need to win 8 of every 10 you play at your own rating level to raise your rating 50 points, but only 6 of every 10 against players rated 200 points higher than you to gain that same 50 in net profit.

With the former, you can stay down in that level for a long time losing games due to simple mistakes and not really make much progress.

With the latter, (playing against stronger opponents) you gain the points and the added benefit of what you learn from the experience of playing against tougher competition.

Something to think about, no?

you get better by playing equal or slightly better opponents. Playing opponents way above your level is only going to frustrate most people out of the game indeed. You also have less of a chance to actually practice and progress. On the same token it also makes the stronger player worse, its just not productive for anyone. Thats why in real life it doesn't work like that. People at Michael Jordans never feel entitled to show up to a neighborhood park and start dunking on kids just to tell them to "git gud" unless there are no other courts available to play on and they need to court to play amongst themselves where they would then have a competitive match.

In real life you have certain parks the A players, B players, C players and D level players frequent. And within those parks you have certain courts that are organized by level too. It's is just natural for people to matchup this way for most competitive match they can have. Because that is how you truly improve and stay productive for everyone. They would have a bad reputation and basketball would be just as popular as e-sports if they acted otherwise.

I do understand why you see it that way, but even in your example of Michael Jordan, he got better and earned the nickname "Jackrabbit" by playing much better competition (older kids) when he was younger. To keep with your b-ball analogy, my point is still nothing but net and now that you tried to counter it and got refuted...they can even say, "And 1!"

I think you got it all wrong. He was like a little kid playing against strong chess players now. They are just that good not because of those strong chess players making it so, but because they have such natural talent from the start.

You say you don't know why I see it like that, I guess thats because I don't see online gaming any different then real life sports. You seem to treat it as otherwise, and I think that is naïve. It goes against common sports sense and human nature.

Not at all. I have it correct and you got it all wrong. I also never said that I didn't know why you see it like that, but if you'll reread, you'll see I said the exact opposite of what you said I said.

The common sports sense is that playing against better competition makes you better.

PawnTsunami

Jul 1, 2022

0

#191

CooloutAC wrote:

PawnTsunami wrote:

CooloutAC wrote:

PawnTsunami wrote:

Steven-ODonoghue wrote:

You think Kowarenai is 1400 OTB strength but has 2500 online peaks because he plays for nothing but cheap tricks every game? What?

Even for the absolute youngest and best blitz specialists the biggest gap you would expect between an OTB rating and online blitz is about 500-600 points.

I have played Kowarenai before, he doesn't play rubbish, actually a lot of the games he wins are grinds where he slowly outplays his opponent (many of whom are titled players).

1) He actually IS ~1400 OTB.

2) I have yet to see a game where he was outplaying a strong opponent (1800+). I see him making sub-par moves quickly and setting up cheap traps (i.e. ones that make his position worse if his opponent handles them properly)

The rating gap discrepancy is actually what intrigued me, as it is highly unusual to see such a gap.

1) I don't think steve was questioning that. 1400 OTB is nothing to scoff at.

2) To quote Levon Aronian " Blitz is not about making the most accurate move, its about posing the hardest questions to your opponent" I guess you call that cheap tricks and smoke and mirrors. You are the type of snobby dude who doesn't consider blitz "real" chess. Which is why you keep talking about OTB classical as if its the same thing and relatable.

I don't see why such a gap is weird. First of all can you link his OTB stats cause i'm curious to look at them? Secondly, i have an 800 gap in my rapid on chess.com vs Lichess. Because Its two different systems and two different playerbases. But you are going even further, you are comparing two completely different chess devices and two different couldn't be further from each other time controls lol.

I am not going to link to the kid's stats. You can look them up yourself.

The fact that you think there is not something odd about a 1400 OTB classical/1500 OTB blitz player racking up master scalps online just demonstrates your lack of understanding just how skillful masters are. It isn't your fault, you simply have not been exposed to them and cannot fathom why that situation is peculiar. (And just for clarification, I am not saying he is doing anything fishy - simply that the assumption his playing strength is on par with masters and yet he struggles OTB is rather interesting).

Because I actually watch online tournaments, and see those masters who dont' have much online experience get scalped easily. You are under the false impression that they are the same. They are only th esame to people who have the same experience in both. I'm assuming, since you don't want to link his stats, is he doesn't ahve that much experience in OTB tournaments.

We have all witnessed what just happened to alireza in the candidates, making HIkaru look like a prophet for predicting it for the sole reason that he doesn't have the experience in such a tournament.

I am not going to link to a minor's stats. That should be self explanatory. If you are too dense to understand that, you do not understand more than just chess.

Suffice it to say he has over 100 classical games registered with USCF. And it looks like close to 200 blitz games (but that is harder to tell because they do not seem to be splitting up the online rated blitz from the OTB rated blitz games in the game statistics page).

When you are talking about masters losing in the SCC, they are doing so to other masters. You do not see an average tournament player jumping in and crushing NMs, much less FMs, IMs, and GMs. If you want a taste of what that is like, sign up for an Untitled Tuesday event. There are no masters in that event, but you will find many 1900+ OTB players in it. To no one's surprise, they are the ones who win it most of the time.

I would encourage you to challenge a master, any master, to a blitz game. You will see first hand why what you are saying makes no sense.

PsychoticGrandmaster

Jul 1, 2022

0

#192