Chess Ethics Quandary

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IshVarLan
oinquarki wrote:
IshVarLan wrote:

 

It just seems like 'dirty pool', or like using Crib notes during a Test

 



Skwerly

i just want to play chess.  i never use anything.  if my opponent at an OTB tournament started looking through chess books, right in front of me, so that he could find the position and gain the edge, he would be promptly asked to leave.  why it's different online is beyond me.

oinquarki
Skwerly wrote:

i just want to play chess.  i never use anything.  if my opponent at an OTB tournament started looking through chess books, right in front of me, so that he could find the position and gain the edge, he would be promptly asked to leave.  why it's different online is beyond me.


Because that's how correspondence chess works; the computer has nothing to do with it.

IshVarLan
oinquarki wrote:
Skwerly wrote:

i just want to play chess.  i never use anything.  if my opponent at an OTB tournament started looking through chess books, right in front of me, so that he could find the position and gain the edge, he would be promptly asked to leave.  why it's different online is beyond me.


Because that's how correspondence chess works; the computer has nothing to do with it.


 Is there a CbM rulebook somewhere Ish could puruse? .. or Maybe a nice Codes of Conduct thingy?

oinquarki
IshVarLan wrote:

 Is there a CbM rulebook somewhere Ish could puruse? .. or Maybe a nice Codes of Conduct thingy?


You mean like this?;

http://www.chess.com/legal.html#rules

IshVarLan
oinquarki wrote:
IshVarLan wrote:

 Is there a CbM rulebook somewhere Ish could puruse? .. or Maybe a nice Codes of Conduct thingy?


You mean like this?;

http://www.chess.com/legal.html#rules


 Well, wasn't thinking for specifically this site, but Yes, that'll likely help

oinquarki
IshVarLan wrote:

 Well, wasn't thinking for specifically this site, but Yes, that'll likely help


This?;

http://tinyurl.com/uscfrulesgooglesearch

Davey_Johnson

This?

 

http://archive.uschess.org/cc/faq.php

 

"Q: Can I refer to chess books?

A: Yes. Players are free to consult chess publications or literature but are not permitted to consult with other players."

 

That would also be default include databases of past games.

waffllemaster
Teary_Oberon wrote:

This?

 

http://archive.uschess.org/cc/faq.php

 

"Q: Can I refer to chess books?

A: Yes. Players are free to consult chess publications or literature but are not permitted to consult with other players."

 

That would also be default include databases of past games.


Publications and chess literature are written by... players Tongue out

Besides I read somewhere that the USCF correspondence rules now allow engine use (correct me if I'm wrong?)

IshVarLan

Hmmm

It all seems like trickery and tom-foolery to Ish

But oh well, it makes the, granted few, Wins all the sweeter, knowing it came from ISH, and only US, whilst the opponent could be consulting everything/anything they want

jesterville

...with all the rules etc. it certainly is not stopping the "faithful cheats" here at chess.com...they are currently closing on average 100 accounts monthly for cheating...it does say something about the current generation of chess players...

IshVarLan
jesterville wrote:

...with all the rules etc. it certainly is not stopping the "faithful cheats" here at chess.com...they are currently closing on average 100 accounts monthly for cheating...it does say something about the current generation of chess players...


 So sad

waffllemaster
jesterville wrote:

...with all the rules etc. it certainly is not stopping the "faithful cheats" here at chess.com...they are currently closing on average 100 accounts monthly for cheating...it does say something about the current generation of chess players...


Yeah, and I think it says: "hoards of them play online"  Tongue out

People don't change

Skwerly
oinquarki wrote:
Skwerly wrote:

i just want to play chess.  i never use anything.  if my opponent at an OTB tournament started looking through chess books, right in front of me, so that he could find the position and gain the edge, he would be promptly asked to leave.  why it's different online is beyond me.


Because that's how correspondence chess works; the computer has nothing to do with it.


i'd be willing to bet that the amount of players consulting books and the MCO or whatever are far, far less than those who just plug the position into fritz and let rybka do its thing.  if computers didn't exist there would be no engine cheating.  doing your homework via books is one thing, and letting a 3,300 rated engine analyze the position for a few minutes is quite another.  if i want to play engines, i'll just fire mine up. 

oinquarki
Skwerly wrote: i'd be willing to bet that the amount of players consulting books and the MCO or whatever are far, far less than those who just plug the position into fritz and let rybka do its thing.  if computers didn't exist there would be no engine cheating.  doing your homework via books is one thing, and letting a 3,300 rated engine analyze the position for a few minutes is quite another.  if i want to play engines, i'll just fire mine up. 

waffllemaster

Slightly educated guess, (but mostly a wild ass guess) I'd say...

~55-60% don't use any sort of reference material and play turn-based as if it were a face to face game.

~30-35%  Use the opening explorer to help in the opening but that's it

~8%  Also use a database like chessbase to help in the opening

~2%  Use opening books, multiple databases, and other reference material as needed (such as endgame or annotated illustrative games)

<1% use an engine for most or all of their moves.

TheGrobe
Skwerly wrote: if computers didn't exist there would be no engine cheating. 

Especially not online.

oinquarki
waffllemaster wrote:

Slightly educated guess, (but mostly a wild ass guess) I'd say...

~55-60% don't use any sort of reference material and play turn-based as if it were a face to face game.

~30-35%  Use the opening explorer to help in the opening but that's it

~8%  Also use a database like chessbase to help in the opening

~2%  Use opening books, multiple databases, and other reference material as needed (such as endgame or annotated illustrative games)

<1% use an engine for most or all of their moves.


That seems pretty accurate, but yeah it's just a wild guess.

waffllemaster
oinquarki wrote:
waffllemaster wrote:

Slightly educated guess, (but mostly a wild ass guess) I'd say...

~55-60% don't use any sort of reference material and play turn-based as if it were a face to face game.

~30-35%  Use the opening explorer to help in the opening but that's it

~8%  Also use a database like chessbase to help in the opening

~2%  Use opening books, multiple databases, and other reference material as needed (such as endgame or annotated illustrative games)

<1% use an engine for most or all of their moves.


That seems pretty accurate, but yeah it's just a wild guess.


The point being that Skwerly is paranoid Tongue out

... funny typing his name... I always read it as if it were square-tee... that's really odd there's no t in there... lol

Davey_Johnson

Teary will usually use the 365chess database in unfamiliar openings (both the opening explorer and the actual games archives), but those typically only last around 7-10 moves (and since you already pretty much know the first few moves of most openings by heart anyways, it is actually only good for about 5 moves).

And even the databases and archives cannot choose the move for you--they just give you a list of candidates that you can be pretty confident aren't total blunders. Even if you compare your opening against the games of the highest rated players, you'll still find variations in plans and decisions mmm hmm.