Chess Players, Chess' biggest detriment

lovely chess

The thread started with OP trashing a particular type of chess player. You joined in and did the same, as did your new found friend.

I'm going to assume that when you say it's "weird" and "beyond your understanding" why people would find value in a particular achievement, you are not referring to the limits of your own intelligence. Though no doubt you will argue, you too are passing judgment.

Don't act like you didn't come on here and insult people.

@Jeremy

Hey.....I didn't take his comments the same way you did. I took them in the spirit of "We're strange creatures and our passion for this 'meaningless' game kind of proves it." I didn't take his use of the word weird as insulting at all....more just interesting, intriguing, odd. I'm sure you're being sincere in your comments, but in fairness, I think you're attributing intent to Melvin that you really can't be sure of. The fact that you took it that way doesn't mean he meant it that way. Sure...I could be wrong too. You and I took his comments differently and at least one of us is wrong, but the only one who knows for sure is MelvinGarvey. 

Look at the general population and compare it to the group I described in first post.  Anyone that is not in the norm, is strange or weird.

What percentage of people in this world take chess so seriously?  A very small percentage of the population and that very small percentage of people sit in judgement of others who would enjoy playing a board game.

You are a beginner if you do not meet our standard. 

Get over yourself and quit putting people down that are clearly not beginners.

What does it mean to be 1600? It means you're supposed to score 90% against a 1200: that is a beginner. (Because otb you get your first FIDE rating starting from 1200). If you think that for some people it's impossible to each that level then it means they're way behind mentally or that you didn't put enough effort.

Guess what, chess is not defined by FIDE.

Only nut jobs believe that is does.  The rest of us know chess is a board game.

@Deadmanparty

"Look at the general population and compare it to the group I described in first post. Anyone that is not in the norm, is strange or weird.

What percentage of people in this world take chess so seriously? A very small percentage of the population and that very small percentage of people sit in judgement of others who would enjoy playing a board game.

You are a beginner if you do not meet our standard.

Get over yourself and quit putting people down that are clearly not beginners."

----------------------------------------

Buddy, you came and started this thread to insult people and cause trouble. Your pal Groucho jumped on the bandwagon and did the same. Then there was all this big talk about how worldly you are, and you teach all kinds of people of all ages, and you know so much.

Other than the two of you, nobody in this thread has been attacking anyone other than the two of you.

As for this whole thing about 1600 players that got your panties in a bunch, it something that is meant to capture a truth, it isn't anybody's personal manifesto. If somebody comes to this site, and they can play chess including castling and en passant, then if they put in the effort they can get to 1600. It isn't meant to be a universal truth. It's just saying, you don't need to born with some special gift, or be endowed with some magical talent. Chess is something that can be learned, with time and effort. Period. The achievement they reach is like anything else. A person can spend the same amount of time and energy learning the piano, learning another language, working out in the gym to get in shape. They will benefit from the focus and the effort they put in.

I started this thread to point out how the arrogance of people like you, if you are one of these FIDE defines all folks.

Get over it.  FIDE ratings apply only to FIDE.  Fide beginner is a FIDE beginner, not a beginner at playing the board game called chess.

The part where I guess I disagree is where he refers to learning chess as a "mental disorder", specifically:

"Then, the idea one should get praised for having been running for long after a very vain glory that only other people gifted with the same mental disorder can understand, is even weirder."

We're all different. As he pointed out in a different post, maybe somebody has learned languages, maybe they have learned a vocation or a trade. But I think there is room in everybody's life for a hobby, whether it's learning chess, learning music, learning to paint, or anything else that brings people happiness and satisfaction. I think it's weird if people don't do that, if they have the time to do so.

I did not say learning chess was a learning disorder.  Just that going overboard may be a sign of a mental disorder, a form of over obsession.

You never know.  That could be true.

good thing "praise" is worthless

If you're bad at chess, then you're bad at chess. Afaik that doesn't generalize into other mental endeavors despite what the media may portray. So maybe not everyone can reach 1600 with their best efforts.

However when you talk about rating there has to be an organization for standards. Fide is it internationally and you have local federations as well. Just a board game or otherwise.

As with most things, right?

Again as with most things.

Self deprecation is my gig.  Please find another. Also fewer words please. We here can't read so well. TICCPROW 

When I was in second grade my teacher was helping a classmate with his handwriting work. I mentioned offhandedly that I didn’t see what was so hard about handwriting, to which she told me very personally, “just because you find it easy doesn’t mean everyone else does.” I didn’t understand what she meant- I mean it’s literally handwriting! Just trace the line!- but I’m no longer a second grader.

this reminds me of the joke, on offering a woman a million dollars to bed her, when most would agree and then offering zero and getting a no , to conclude, that they both know what she is but simply havent found the right price!
obviously when people say, everyone or not can reach 1600, they dont mean literally everyone , not toddlers, not individuals with extreme mental disability or dementia, not people that literally have dory level memory or people so rowdy they can sit still over a minute.

we obviously mean a certain ideal person of mediocre ability and average intellect capable of learning and working moderately hard at something as a goal. Notice that the statement about not everyone being able to reach 1600 sounds kind of ridiculous if you lower it to say, 800 or even 1000! so clearly, you believe there is a level where our use of "everyone" can get to.

the question is then the number. it obvious, 800-1000 is too easy, and 2000 is prob were among the most optimistic ones would put the number. i think 1600-1800 is achievable for our average hypothetical every man if he wants it provided he doesnt have some undiagnosed visual processing disorder and actually wants to improve.

its more complicated then it look. you can dyslexia and confuse certain things like b and d, or be forced to write with you non-dominant hand.
imagine how absurd riding a bike looks like to an outsider who cant do it. How the hell you keep all that mass aligned in a small wheel like that at all times!?

Okay, good point - when you're including yourself in the group that definitely changes the complexion of what you're saying. So I apologize for that.

I don't know where this idea comes from that people expect or deserve "special respect" for getting to 1600 - especially when we all seem to be agreeing that 1600 isn't that special. To me, OP is just spewing a lot of garbage, and I feel kind of stupid for inserting myself into it.

Again, I apologize to you for the misunderstanding.

yeah. But i was seven so I give myself a pass lol