That was another example of mine. Simply.
Another statement to the discussion.
Chess "GOAT" discussion
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Alekhine, he prepare to win world champion against great genius Capablanca, if this not a G.O.A.T. ? Alekhine study quiet position so he can become a better positional player, study the endgame, and winning many tournaments Alekhine did everything to prepare against Capablanca.
Chess GOAT? Maybe Carlsen.
I am more interested in the basketball GOAT. I have to agree with AC that Bill Russell was the most valuable player on the court.
Shaq? A freak of nature more than a Bball hall of famer.
Dr J not mentioned? Blasphemy!
The reason so many people loved Jordan was because he brought so much style to the game. True, he won 6 finals, but, even Jordan would admit that Phil Jackson had a HUGE hand in those titles. Another reason Jordan is so loved is because of his shoe game.
WBFISHER wrote:
Shaq? A freak of nature more than a Bball hall of famer.
Dr J not mentioned? Blasphemy!
Best ever should be a debate about a short list in a game with a relatively short history. That's why Dr. J was not in any of my posts (although, he did make the best move I've ever seen, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr0vwEEbTf4).
Shaq is definitely a HOF'er. A freak of nature? Yes. He also learned the game, and dominated the lane.
As one titled player mentioned, chess has a much longer history. Just my opinion, but I think those that weigh in that are titled may be influenced by those they studied that helped them reach Master level?
(This is coming from a guy that has never studied any chess. I play. That's it. I recognize the names mentioned because I'm on this site, but I couldn't give first names for more than half of them)
BigKingBud wrote:
The reason so many people loved Jordan was because he brought so much style to the game.
I can't believe I'm agreeing with this guy, but, yes, his style was a huge part of the attraction.
Lets switch GOAT to TOGA and have a toga party!!!!
I'm with the rotten Columbian.
Morphy: Simply effortless brilliance.
Jun 1, 2015
0
#51
When Jordan was in his prime, it became de riguer to say someone else was better because of some intangible that was beyond Jordan's amazing success. Jordan was always the comparison because he was the best. In chess, the same could be said of Garry Kasparov. Go ahead--make an argument that Kaspy wasn't the GOAT but the argument starts there and frankly should end there. Kasparov is the greatest chess player who ever lived. It's interesting to argue about who's second but objectively, there shouldn't be any doubt who is first.
Jun 1, 2015
0
#52
Love the hoops conversation, by the way. My own list of best players ever:
1. MJ--not just a player but a worldwide phenomenon.
2. Russell
3. I think, when all is said and done, Lebron goes here.
4. Abdul-Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Magic Johnson
7. Larry Bird
8. Tim Duncan
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Julius Erving
Four of the top ten were Lakers. If the list extended to twenty, I could double that number. We've seen some good ones here in La La Land. 😄
Actually, no, it wasn't "de riguer" to say someone else was better than MJ. The only knock on him was that it took years for him to win. In his prime everyone was enamored with him.
When he was in his prime, it was during the explosion of sports radio talk shows and 24 hour sports on TV. That's what makes surveys (done by mostly young people) show him as the best.
Anyone here under the age of 40 remember The Big O? (sure to get spam for that! Helluva nickname!)
Over his career he averaged a triple double. Nowadays it's a "good" stat if a player has ten of them.
best chess goat
Jun 1, 2015
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#55
AlCzervivk, I'd like to amend my de riguer comment, if for nothing else to avoid sounding like a douche. As for the Big O, he's in the top twenty and there's not a helluva lot of difference between Robertson and the all-time greats. A remarkable player, one of the five best guards of all time. If someone wanted to rank him higher, that's there prerogative and I'm not altogether sure they're wrong.
Gotta have Mikan in a top ten list. He changed the game.
Jun 1, 2015
0
#58
AlCzervik wrote:
Gotta have Mikan in a top ten list. He changed the game.
Another one who certainly could be a top ten all-time great. He's not on my list but I'm not blaming anyone for putting him there.
If talking about present situaton no doubt it is Magnus Carlsen because he had defeated players like vishy, fabio and many more like he is the one who trains them. But talking of all time no doubt its Gary Kasparov, Carlsen is on the one to rule the chess world for years.
Mateusz_Dubinski wrote:
Have I written anything like: that's the list ALL basketball players who deverved to be named GOAT?
NO!
I haven't mentioned also: Tim Duncan, Jerry West, Clyde Drexler, Karl Malone, Allen Iverson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Geaorge Gervin, have I? Does it mean that I am trying to devalue treir achievements?
NO!
I have listed only few players as an example.
Don't pick holes in everything.
Yes you gave examples but your examples were sub-optimal ones. Its like given sub-par-variations.
SHAQ was a monster purely unstoppable for a very long time.
As for your following statement:
Lasker expected too much funds to organize the match between them both. Lasker did that intentionally. Then there was The First World War and that's why Lasker was the World Champion for 27 years.
In your heart, I do not believe you honestly believe that statement. Lasker was a monster. You statement makes him look as a player who tryed to weasel away from competition. Which is such nonsense. He was well with-in his rights to expect funds he wished. For that is what was done during that time. Steinitz did similar fashion.
If you want to call that as an "example". Thats fine;however, how could you try and be smirch a World Champion. Who dominated for close to 3 decades.
Lasker was finishing ahead of people into his late 80's.
Lasker was hyper-Modern before Aaron nimzovich even came around.
1912 - Rubistein's year. He won all the tournament he took part in. Lasker expected too much funds to organize the match between them both. Lasker did that intentionally. Then there was The First World War and that's why Lasker was the World Champion for 27 years. I really admire Lasker, especially he was born in Barlinek, present polish city.