Chess will never be solved, here's why
Sort:
20923 coments OMG
😳😱🤯
Sabotaging DRDOS probably put the entire computer industry back 5 years and now lots of people are still stuck on Windows, because due to the loss of DRDOS, many keen amateurs like myself could still tweak Windows up to about 1995 but they started loading it with spoof code, to block alterations. In any case, MSDOS was way behind DRDOS in what it could do and MSDOS wasn't friendly to experimentation. It was comparitively prehistoric. So we ended up with the rather poor Windows instead of the much better system which WOULD have emerged.
Yes, Linux.
But it set the entire industry back because of the determination of one man (whom I think I met at the same tiime I met Jobs and Wosniak).
All in all, re the Deep Blue thing, I don't think mpaetz's point was a bad one. Humans can take guidance between rounds. I am beginning to see the force of your argument, mpaetz. I also think that the Deep Blue programmers acted in an underhand way. Ultimately, it all depends on how Kasparov REALLY felt about it. But, at the time, I think it was the case that he supposed he was playing against a finished article, which had been prepared for the match. He would have understood the arguments from the other side.
But ultimately, it was accepted then that matches should take place with no human interference. Kasparov was also unsettled because he could tell that they had reset the engine differently, which was against the understanding that prevailed. This knowledge is known to have upset his temperament and his play for the rest of the second match.
11 days ago
0
#20930
@lieutenantFrank: "yea gonna have to disagree with you on the merging with machines thing."
"The Singularity Is Near" by Kurzweil (author of "The Age of Spiritual Machines") is a must- read.
Don't know if I like it or agree with it ethically, but we likely have no choice. It's coming.
There are good points. Real ESP. Effective immortality and miniaturization (entire populations within an atom). Real interstellar expansion.
The points he raises are compelling.
His timeline addresses many paradoxes. To wit:
"If there are extraterrestrials in the universe, where are they?"
Answer: all around us.
The point being, a being capable of visiting from another galaxy would be indistinguishable from god and to us effectively ineffable.
on the current timeline, the children born to the 12 year olds on this site will live to see that world.
If we don't destroy ourselves.
Optimissed wrote:
Er .....
The point is that the engine isn't adjusting its own play. They saw how Kasparov had prepared against it and they tweaked it to specifically deal with that, presumably without him knowing. He was playing not only against Deep Blue but against a whole tribe of GMs too.
Nice try but sorry, you can't get away with that. I mean, did K enlist to play Deep Blue or against Deep Blue and a tribe of GMs? They probably compensated him with more money, which often makes things better. Otherwise I can't see he would have let them get away with it. Fantastic advertising for them but not very honest. But MSoft were "ditto" when they sabotaged DRDOS, which was my fave operating system at the time, so maybe it's just something that's done in the industry. Facebook pinching someone else's code etc etc etc.
Kasparov and *his team of GMs* put together the game strategies for his match play, so...again, double standard for the poor machine.
Cythaera wrote:
@lieutenantFrank: "yea gonna have to disagree with you on the merging with machines thing."
"The Singularity Is Near" by Kurzweil (author of "The Age of Spiritual Machines") is a must- read.
Don't know if I like it or agree with it ethically, but we likely have no choice. It's coming.
There are good points. Real ESP. Effective immortality and miniaturization (entire populations within an atom). Real interstellar expansion.
The points he raises are compelling.
His timeline addresses many paradoxes. To wit:
"If there are extraterrestrials in the universe, where are they?"
Answer: all around us.
The point being, a being capable of visiting from another galaxy would be indistinguishable from god and to us effectively ineffable.
on the current timeline, the children born to the 12 year olds on this site will live to see that world.
If we don't destroy ourselves.
"The Singularity Is Near" by Kurzweil (author of "The Age of Spiritual Machines") is a must- read.
Don't know if I like it or agree with it ethically, but we likely have no choice. It's coming.
There are good points. Real ESP. Effective immortality and miniaturization (entire populations within an atom). Real interstellar expansion.
The points he raises are compelling.
His timeline addresses many paradoxes. To wit:
"If there are extraterrestrials in the universe, where are they?"
Answer: all around us.
The point being, a being capable of visiting from another galaxy would be indistinguishable from god and to us effectively ineffable.
on the current timeline, the children born to the 12 year olds on this site will live to see that world.
If we don't destroy ourselves.
Kurzweil is a hybrid between a technical innovator and pop-futurist guru. Some of his work is groundbreaking, some is complete hype. He fits in well with Silicon Valley, as a result. I would definitely hold off on entire populations within an atom...
Optimissed wrote:
All in all, re the Deep Blue thing, I don't think mpaetz's point was a bad one. Humans can take guidance between rounds. I am beginning to see the force of your argument, mpaetz. I also think that the Deep Blue programmers acted in an underhand way. Ultimately, it all depends on how Kasparov REALLY felt about it. But, at the time, I think it was the case that he supposed he was playing against a finished article, which had been prepared for the match. He would have understood the arguments from the other side.
But ultimately, it was accepted then that matches should take place with no human interference. Kasparov was also unsettled because he could tell that they had reset the engine differently, which was against the understanding that prevailed. This knowledge is known to have upset his temperament and his play for the rest of the second match.
I think it's great that you and Player both agree with this being a valid counterpoint. Too bad you didn't agree when I made it 
...
I think it's great that you don't make it clear what you're talking about. Maybe it's real proof that neither of us reads your posts? I don't know about player but I assume they contain nothing of value.
Exactly what is a valid counterpoint to what? Don't expect me to read your mind.
Optimissed wrote:
I think it's great that you don't make it clear what you're talking about. Maybe it's real proof that neither of us reads your posts? I don't know about player but I assume they contain nothing of value.
Exactly what is a valid counterpoint to what? Don't expect me to read your mind.
Lol. Not only did you read it, you dismissed it and argued against it yesterday, only now to agree with the same point today coming from another poster. Such is your short term memory, which is following your long term memory into oblivion.
There's only point that Mpaetz made that you were replying to, so don't be disingenuous about not understanding what point it is.
11 days ago
0
#20936
DiogenesDue: "Kurzweil is a hybrid between a technical innovator and pop-futurist guru. Some of his work is groundbreaking, some is complete hype. He fits in well with Silicon Valley, as a result. I would definitely hold off on entire populations within an atom..."
he's out there for sure.
actually an east coast guy.
invented the K250 sampling synthesizer and invented Dragon Naturally Speaking.
But here's something interesting. "Singularity Is Near" came out in 2005. Later, he was a research fellow at Google/alphabet when Google was developing the math on which today's LLMs and GPT engines are based. That same tech also drives the image generators if the early 2020s boom led by Stable Diffusion. I'm not saying Kurzweil contributed to that. (rumor says he was an emeritus at google who didn't do much of anything.). but his book DID predict that boom, and his timeline is more or less correct.
incidentally, the book predicted that entertainment would drive the current AI/VR boom-- yes, including porn. He was right about that, too.
he has a newer book that i haven't read-- "the singularity is Nearer.". i'll get around to it, maybe, but yeah, he's become kind of a crackpot.
he's out there for sure.
actually an east coast guy.
invented the K250 sampling synthesizer and invented Dragon Naturally Speaking.
But here's something interesting. "Singularity Is Near" came out in 2005. Later, he was a research fellow at Google/alphabet when Google was developing the math on which today's LLMs and GPT engines are based. That same tech also drives the image generators if the early 2020s boom led by Stable Diffusion. I'm not saying Kurzweil contributed to that. (rumor says he was an emeritus at google who didn't do much of anything.). but his book DID predict that boom, and his timeline is more or less correct.
incidentally, the book predicted that entertainment would drive the current AI/VR boom-- yes, including porn. He was right about that, too.
he has a newer book that i haven't read-- "the singularity is Nearer.". i'll get around to it, maybe, but yeah, he's become kind of a crackpot.
11 days ago
0
#20937
Cythaera wrote:
@lieutenantFrank: "yea gonna have to disagree with you on the merging with machines thing."
"The Singularity Is Near" by Kurzweil (author of "The Age of Spiritual Machines") is a must- read.
Don't know if I like it or agree with it ethically, but we likely have no choice. It's coming.
There are good points. Real ESP. Effective immortality and miniaturization (entire populations within an atom). Real interstellar expansion.
The points he raises are compelling.
His timeline addresses many paradoxes. To wit:
"If there are extraterrestrials in the universe, where are they?"
Answer: all around us.
The point being, a being capable of visiting from another galaxy would be indistinguishable from god and to us effectively ineffable.
on the current timeline, the children born to the 12 year olds on this site will live to see that world.
If we don't destroy ourselves.
"The Singularity Is Near" by Kurzweil (author of "The Age of Spiritual Machines") is a must- read.
Don't know if I like it or agree with it ethically, but we likely have no choice. It's coming.
There are good points. Real ESP. Effective immortality and miniaturization (entire populations within an atom). Real interstellar expansion.
The points he raises are compelling.
His timeline addresses many paradoxes. To wit:
"If there are extraterrestrials in the universe, where are they?"
Answer: all around us.
The point being, a being capable of visiting from another galaxy would be indistinguishable from god and to us effectively ineffable.
on the current timeline, the children born to the 12 year olds on this site will live to see that world.
If we don't destroy ourselves.
We are free to believe in whatever we want. The one truth is that we are our own worst enemy.
That's what I meant, he set up shop in Silicon Valley and considers himself a guru, hanging out with VCs and startup hopefuls...he's not even a big name founder put out to CTO pasture or anything unless you really count Dragon Naturally Speaking (which I do own, bought it in 2011). I would not.
11 days ago
0
#20939
he's a mixed bag for sure.
all I'm saying is his timeline has been spot-on for thirty-plus years. even that he can't take sole credit for. m
all I'm saying is his timeline has been spot-on for thirty-plus years. even that he can't take sole credit for. m
I have to point out that the rules allowed for adjustments between games. You know, like human players do?
There was no cheating. Kasparov played badly, by listening to his team and deciding to use some computer countering play that worked on old engines. He should have just played his best openings, set aside the assumptions of what computers do, and he might have won that 2nd match. Doesn't matter, by 2006 it was all over for humanity.
The rules imposed by IBM. In reality, Kasparov was supposed to be helping them develop by playing that match. The reality was that they promoted the machine by focussing on the incorrect claim that the machine had won a fair match, and yet between rounds, they tweaked it to adjust to K's play. Since there was very significant human input, Deep Blue did not defeat Kasparov.
During the course of a match any human player will adjust their play as they see what their opponent is doing. Why should a computer be different? Without "human input" a computer will not be able to play chess (or do anything else) at all. Players that listen to bad advice often lose.
Er .....
The point is that the engine isn't adjusting its own play. They saw how Kasparov had prepared against it and they tweaked it to specifically deal with that, presumably without him knowing. He was playing not only against Deep Blue but against a whole tribe of GMs too.
Nice try but sorry, you can't get away with that.
I mean, did K enlist to play Deep Blue or against Deep Blue and a tribe of GMs? They probably compensated him with more money, which often makes things better. Otherwise I can't see he would have let them get away with it. Fantastic advertising for them but not very honest. But MSoft were "ditto" when they sabotaged DRDOS, which was my fave operating system at the time, so maybe it's just something that's done in the industry. Facebook pinching someone else's code etc etc etc.