@7442
"What other things are not equal here"
++ Easy: no way to checkmate even with some h-pawn added.
Chess will never be solved, here's why
Sort:
@7444
Yes.
@7446
"5.2.2 The game is drawn when a position has arisen in which neither player can checkmate the opponent’s king with any series of legal moves. The game is said to end in a ‘dead position’. This immediately ends the game, provided that the move producing the position was in accordance with Article 3 and Articles 4.2 – 4.7."
https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023
Jan 17, 2023
0
#5547
Relevance to the question? It's terminated for both sides on my reading.
@7448
Your position is already a draw per Laws of Chess 5.2.2.
There is no need for any further calculation or evaluation.
Jan 17, 2023
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#5549
The rule is: 'Other things being equal, any material gain, no matter how small, means success'.
Where do you mention further calculation or evaluation?
Any remote chance of answering my original question, "What other things are not equal here, pray?"
@7450
Other things are not equal: it already is a draw per 5.2.2.
There can be no success as it already is a draw.
Besides it is not my rule, it is Capablanca's.
Moreover it is a position of 3 men and all positions of 7 men or less are strongly solved.
Jan 17, 2023
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#5551
tygxc wrote:
@7450
Other things are not equal: it already is a draw per 5.2.2.
What is not equal about a draw?
There can be no success as it already is a draw.
Exactly - your rule is duff.
Besides it is not my rule, it is Capablanca's.
Moreover it is a position of 3 men and all positions of 7 men or less are strongly solved.
Nothing in your rule (or FIDE's rules) about 7 men.
You still don't understand what strongly solved means and you're offering to solve chess!
@Optimissed: @tygxc's brain is missing.
@7453
"What is not equal about a draw?" ++ There can be no success as it already is a draw.
"you quote a bum rule" ++ I quote a Capablanca rule, so you are the bum.
"Nothing in your rule about 7 men."
++ This thread is about weakly solving chess i.e. from 32 to 8 men.
"You still don't understand what strongly solved means"
++ I understand that, you do not.
Strongly solved is being used for a game for which a strategy has been determined to achieve the game-theoretic value against any opposition.
That is what the 7-men endgame table base has done for all positions with 7 men or less.
Jan 17, 2023
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#5553
MARattigan wrote:
Was that meant to be an answer to the question by any chance?
The way it is resolved is for each position you enlist an amateur human chessplayer to make a proclamation as to whether "other things are equal". No great strength required, @tygxc will do.
Unfortunately, due to having to do this with quintillions of positions (according to @tygxc), it will be necessary to greatly increase the human population - Earth will NOT be enough room - in order to (fail to) solve chess according to @tygxc's program.
I hate to put a damper on this project, but there is no sane definition of "other things are equal" that would work. Not only are almost all positions assymetric in complex ways that are not easily balanced, even the perfectly symmetrical ones are sometimes won for the side with the move and sometimes won for the side without the move!
I feel this calls for the animated emoji.
Jan 17, 2023
0
#5554
tygxc wrote:
@7453
"What is not equal about a draw?" ++ There can be no success as it already is a draw.
What is not equal about, "There can be no success as it already is a draw", then. Put it that way.
"you quote a bum rule" ++ I quote a Capablanca rule, so you are the bum.
It was you that quoted the rule, not me.
"Nothing in your rule about 7 men."
++ This thread is about weakly solving chess i.e. from 32 to 8 men.
Whatever the thread is about, it remains a fact that there is nothing in your rule about 7 men. If you don't have an answer you should just admit it instead of talking about something else.
"You still don't understand what strongly solved means"
++ I understand that, you do not.
Strongly solved is being used for a game for which a strategy has been determined to achieve the game-theoretic value against any opposition.
That is what the 7-men endgame table base has done for all positions with 7 men or less.
The final position shown below has a game-theoretic value of "draw" under FIDE competition rules chess (suitably amended to be capable of solution). The only move to draw is 26...Ka1. The strategy of any tablebase is to play 26...Kc1 which loses.
Would it be possible for you to take that in at some point?
@7455
"due to having to do this with quintillions of positions" ++ Not according to me.
General case: calculation until the 7-men endgame table base.
Special cases: no further calculation for clear wins or clear draws.
"an amateur human chessplayer to make a proclamation as to whether other things are equal"
++ No. Sveshnikov called for good assistants, I understand that as (ICCF) (grand)masters.
But yes, for 1 e4 e5 2 Ba6? it is that obvious that also an amateur human chessplayer can see it.
Jan 17, 2023
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#5556
Optimissed wrote:
MARattigan wrote:
...
@Optimissed: @tygxc's brain is missing.
That could be a knee jerk reaction because of President Reagan.
I was actually thinking of Kennedy.
yo
Jan 17, 2023
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#5558
btickler wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
...
...
"So the World, as in the English nation centred on London" is a viewpoint that fits oh-so-well with your worldview and your outlook on your own personal importance to the planet. ...
Not even from London. He's from the third world. Wigan!
Jan 17, 2023
0
#5559
MARattigan wrote:
tygxc wrote:
...
"You still don't understand what strongly solved means"
++ I understand that, you do not.
Strongly solved is being used for a game for which a strategy has been determined to achieve the game-theoretic value against any opposition.
That is what the 7-men endgame table base has done for all positions with 7 men or less.
The final position shown below has a game-theoretic value of "draw" under FIDE competition rules chess (suitably amended to be capable of solution). The only move to draw is 26...Ka1. The strategy of any tablebase is to play 26...Kc1 which loses.
Would it be possible for you to take that in at some point?
++No.
@7440
"there are quadrillions of positions where one side is a pawn up but it is not a win for that side"
++ That is right. The rule is: 'Other things being equal, any material gain, no matter how small, means success'. 1 e4 e5 2 Ba6? is material gain and other things are equal.
...
What other things are not equal here, pray?