Chess will never be solved, here's why

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BigChessplayer665
llama_l wrote:
tygxc wrote:

That means they were approaching perfect play in previous years and now have reached it.

See, like I said, ICCF players have solved chess... but I wont tell you my definition of "solved."

In any case, it more likely means humans have less and less useful input, and when the engines play each other it's unsurprisingly a draw.

Solved chess does not have to be perfect play

It just has to look like it

I have a very bad feeling there's an error somewhere with how they "solved " it

Elroch
Optimissed wrote:
MEGACHE3SE wrote:

"Looked at it. It's an hypothesis. It may be considered by Zermelo to be an axiom and there's no syllogistic proof to support it."

If it wasnt proved it wouldnt be called "zermelo's theorem"

"It was an inductive proof, you fool. Can't you even read? It wasn't deductive. Means it's an assumption."

in mathematics inductive proofs are literally logically equivalent to deductive proofs. "Induction" is just referring to the techniques used. 

for example, one of the most basic inductive proofs is to prove that the sum of the first N integers is equal to N(N+1)/2.

let f(N) = N(N+1)/2. Basic arithmetic shows that f(N+1) - f(N) = N+1. therefore, if f(K) = the sum of the first K integers, then f(K+1) = sum of first K+1 integers (where K is a known constant).

then, we start by verifying that f(1)=1.

finally, mathematical induction refers to the step where N can be extended from 1 to all natural numbers. this too is mathematically rigorous, for any M that we claim is the lowest integer for which a statement is false, since M-1 must be true, M must also be true.

All in all optimissed i think your struggles come from imprinting different definitions to mathematical terminology and methods.

On reflection, I was completely right. The mathematically inductive proof that Zermelo used for his simplistic ideas can only be extended to solving chess via a process of philosophically inductive reasoning, which happens to be false since like isn't being mapped to like. It's as though a crumpet is being mapped to a falcon.

No.

Read what MEGACH3SE wrote and learn something. You seem to have already forgotten that there are two non-overlapping usages of the word "induction", something that can be a problem at advanced ages.

playerafar

I read a bit of that post by O's. Despite his invalid premise at start.
Elroch is always cleverer than O. But that isn't hard.
O pathetically tried to claim there wasn't perfect information and Elroch blew that out of the water by reminding O that if you know what a number is that doesn't mean you know its factors.
O's defenses and attempts at damage control are always a kind of verbal diarrhoea ...
And O's attempts to downplay Turing appear to be based on O's position that if O makes an opinion that that opinion must be right - with O having stated earlier 'if its an opinion it can't be inaccurate' ... O trying to refer to O's own opinions but he would be wrong anyway on that and wrong and losing every time he tries to so premise and is wrong and has been wrong and has been losing and is losing and continues to lose. Constantly.
----------------------------
If and when O gets some deniers of science and people who like O's trolling to admire and agree with him - O is still losing.
O constantly trying to insult and denigrate Elroch and Dio simply means O resents being constantly losing to those two and that they're doing the right thing.
O is furious with them both for blocking him and that is typical of fragile and delicate people like O. He is insecure and accordingly lives in a glass house while constantly forgetting that persons living in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.
-----------------------------
And yes O tried to semantically defacate about 'philosophical' and 'Induction'
but Elroch instantly blew that out of the water too just now.
O actually looked something up?
And so suddenly he is Einstein?
O is @Optimissed. Translation: Dismalized.

playerafar

O constantly gets excited when somebody deletes something.
Being conceited - he probably makes it a point to never delete or edit a post he has made.
O - not being clever - doesn't realize that a person may delete or edit posts to improve his or her postings.
O is paranoid about others using their posting options.

BigChessplayer665
Optimissed wrote:

And Bayesian analysis is statistical analysis, Elroch. I'm discussing equation creating and solving. And you have shown yourself too slippery for you to expect that your protestations will be believed by anyone. You shouldn't have used the tactics you tried to use to discredit my arguments, which are good ones.

Nah as much as I dislike playerafar and how he handles politics he has a point

Elroch
Optimissed wrote:

I haven't read your comment, any of it

Finally, you reveal a reason why your replies make no sense!

BigChessplayer665
Optimissed wrote:
BigChessplayer665 wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

And Bayesian analysis is statistical analysis, Elroch. I'm discussing equation creating and solving. And you have shown yourself too slippery for you to expect that your protestations will be believed by anyone. You shouldn't have used the tactics you tried to use to discredit my arguments, which are good ones.

Nah as much as I dislike playerafar and how he handles politics he has a point

You seems to be saying that Playerafar is Elroch's alt. You really shouldn;t go round saying stuff like that you know!

Elroch was taken apart, cooked and served on a plate yesterday. He has no credibility here today, except with the trollish ones ....

I never said that he's not an alt

Your the one saying it not me all I said was playerafar was pointing out something

1.you like to claim others are alts for no reason

Elroch
Optimissed wrote:

And Bayesian analysis is statistical analysis, Elroch. I'm discussing equation creating and solving.

Mathematical analysis (my specialisation as a postgrad). Measure theory is the foundation of probability theory as well as integral calculus. The theory of distributions is supported by functional analysis (analysis in infinite dimensions).

BigChessplayer665
Optimissed wrote:
Elroch wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

I haven't read your comment, any of it

Finally, you reveal a reason why your replies make no sense!

Only your last comment, which was obviously based on desperation. Deleting those pictures; well, you shouldn't have posted them in the first place because they were offensive. Dio took them as a cue to start trolling and he made many off-topic attempted attacks. I realised I'd seen it before and then your mistake was to delete the pictures. I knew then that I was right, not about the bogus Theorem but about you.

Sounds like your trying to exhibit your qualities "desperation " cough cough

BigChessplayer665
Optimissed wrote:
BigChessplayer665 wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
Elroch wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

I haven't read your comment, any of it

Finally, you reveal a reason why your replies make no sense!

Only your last comment, which was obviously based on desperation. Deleting those pictures; well, you shouldn't have posted them in the first place because they were offensive. Dio took them as a cue to start trolling and he made many off-topic attempted attacks. I realised I'd seen it before and then your mistake was to delete the pictures. I knew then that I was right, not about the bogus Theorem but about you.

Sounds like your trying to exhibit your qualities "desperation " cough cough

OK you're trolling and you're out. You will be disregarded since it's merely attention seeking. Go and play with your toys.

I am playing with my toys

It's like a game of cat and mouse

Elroch
Optimissed wrote:
BigChessplayer665 wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

And Bayesian analysis is statistical analysis, Elroch. I'm discussing equation creating and solving. And you have shown yourself too slippery for you to expect that your protestations will be believed by anyone. You shouldn't have used the tactics you tried to use to discredit my arguments, which are good ones.

Nah as much as I dislike playerafar and how he handles politics he has a point

You seems to be saying that Playerafar is Elroch's alt. You really shouldn;t go round saying stuff like that you know!

Elroch was taken apart, cooked and served on a plate yesterday. He has no credibility here today, except with the trollish ones ....

You see how many people agree with you?

No, I can't see anyone either.

Note carefully, it's not that @MEGACH3SE, @playerafar, @MARattigan, @DiogenesDue, @llama_l, @BigChessplayer665 and myself (sorry if I missed someone) are ganging up on you. It's that we are on the side of what is true. You are lost somewhere else in a frenzy of ego-driven nonsense.

I have found this rare video of @Optimissed having just discovered that he got something wrong (again).

Elroch
BigChessplayer665 wrote:
llama_l wrote:
tygxc wrote:

That means they were approaching perfect play in previous years and now have reached it.

See, like I said, ICCF players have solved chess... but I wont tell you my definition of "solved."

In any case, it more likely means humans have less and less useful input, and when the engines play each other it's unsurprisingly a draw.

Solved chess does not have to be perfect play

It just has to look like it

I think what you mean is that the games in the ICCF competition merely have to appear correct.

This is true. But the main point is that even if they are all correct, they are about 10^20 times short of a full weak solution of chess, according to the only precise definition of weak solution used in the research community.

I have a very bad feeling there's an error somewhere with how they "solved " it

The ICCF have not come within a million miles of solving chess (according to the definition). They merely play (engine-assisted) chess.

Elroch

A key reason @BigChessplayer665 has been able to show he is smarter than you in his responses to the posts here is his lack of your massive psychological handicap. Insulting him should be a motivation for you to be concerned why you are wrong so much more.

Where are those who back you up? Is it that your communication skills are too weak to convince anyone?

[Hint: the crucial thing is that you are wrong a lot].

DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

Both coded signals to Dio have now been deleted. This is interesting since it confirms my suspicion that it's a signal and it tends to support the belief that they are prearranged signals. I have seen him employ them previously. There is no doubt that although Elroch portrays tygxc as intellectually dishonest, our eyes should not be on tygxc. It isn't mere intellectual dishonesty but consists of a willingness to do anything to win an argument, which includes deliberately confusing onlookers so they may wrongly imagine that he is winning.

Lol...coded signals? You are completely daft.

DiogenesDue
Prot19 wrote:

sorry is not a giveaway is a free lottery in

guys! I have seen a very interesting free lottery from a certain Alexchess. They are interactive chess books converted from pdf to chessbase etc. There are also videos. I'll give you the link, I've already signed up!

It is in Spanish but the operation and so on are perfectly understood and there are books in English!

And it is something that was being searched a lot in the forums, such as having the pdf books converted and being able to study them in chessbase for example.

[link removed]

And also :

[link removed]

They could be downloaded here but now it won't let me, the links must be dead but they can be requested and he sent me one!

Enough with the spamming...all three of your posts reported.

Elroch

@Optimissed, @llama_l has good understanding. See https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/chess-will-never-be-solved-heres-why?page=627

where he addresses some ways you and @tygxc go wrong. (Specifically, he addresses your confusion about mathematical induction).

Note that he has on occasion used irony. This may have gone over your head.

DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

Only your last comment, which was obviously based on desperation. Deleting those pictures; well, you shouldn't have posted them in the first place because they were offensive. Dio took them as a cue to start trolling and he made many off-topic attempted attacks. I realised I'd seen it before and then your mistake was to delete the pictures. I knew then that I was right, not about the bogus Theorem but about you.

Still daft. I don't even know what images you are talking about. I certainly need no prompting or cues...you provide those yourself when you hopelessly mangle logic and science and/or insult everyone around you...and I far from the only person that sees your antics for what they are.

BigChessplayer665
Optimissed wrote:

None of his comments have been about my comments. I'm not saying he hasn't got a good understanding. I've been focussed on showing that you made conflicting claims at various points in your arguments, which you most certainly did and now all you want to do is to cover it up. In your own threads you flood them with trolls who back you up. This is no different except you can't block people for dishonest reasons. So unfortunately for you, one good poster who is more than your equal showed your arguments for what they are.

Conspiracy theories ...I like it !

BigChessplayer665
Optimissed wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
Elroch wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

I haven't read your comment, any of it

Finally, you reveal a reason why your replies make no sense!

Only your last comment, which was obviously based on desperation. Deleting those pictures; well, you shouldn't have posted them in the first place because they were offensive. Dio took them as a cue to start trolling and he made many off-topic attempted attacks. I realised I'd seen it before and then your mistake was to delete the pictures. I knew then that I was right, not about the bogus Theorem but about you.

Still daft. I don't even know what images you are talking about. I certainly need no prompting or cues...you provide those yourself when you hopelessly mangle logic and science and/or insult everyone around you...and I far from the only person that sees your antics for what they are.

Do you think anyone is going to believe you?

You know I got the "nobody believes you speech before about me cheating " even though I was innocent

Sounds like denial at this point

Elroch
Optimissed wrote:
Elroch wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

I haven't read your comment, any of it

Finally, you reveal a reason why your replies make no sense!

Only your last comment, which was obviously based on desperation. Deleting those pictures [snip]

For clarity, I have not deleted any pictures.

Do tell us about the imaginary pictures in your head!