found this gem, later tygxc claimed that this was a conjecture made in tromps work--the work that wasnt even out yet
Chess will never be solved, here's why
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MEGACHE3SE
Jun 23, 2024
0
#12541
to protect their master
u mean like a yorkiepom ?
@12816
"You seem to have forgotten. I posted this one for you near the start of the thread."
++ A troll blitz game of Nakamura does not count.
And the Lasker trap does not count either.
Jun 24, 2024
0
#12544
tygxc wrote:
@12816
"You seem to have forgotten. I posted this one for you near the start of the thread."
++ A troll blitz game of Nakamura does not count.
And the Lasker trap does not count either.
Is that from the laws of chess? I can't see anything about trolls in there? It's allowed, I think.
How about Syzygy? That's the only actual solution we've got for any competition rules chess. It will recommend promotion to four anythings, take your pick. Play it at whatever time controls you like, 5 days a move, 10 days a move, whatever.
If and when we get the 10 man Syzygy tablebases it will recommend more knights than Nakamura from this position.
But unlike the non solutions you've so far proposed, Syzygy will tell you all the moves to get the best result from the positions it solves, whatever your opponent plays. As I mentioned earlier, your non solution is no bloody use to anyone, it's no bloody use at all.
Is Syzygy trolling too?
What about your non solution? Will that troll too?
We can't tell without a reasonable description of how you plan to produce it (a flowchart or pseudocode or just a detailed account in English) as you were asked to produce a year or two ago but never got round to.
That is what determines what counts. Big red telephones don't count.
Perhaps you might try it now. Without it you have no justification for even starting with 4.85x10^46 instead of something enormously bigger.
Same recycled, regurgitated crapola you made 100 times.
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:
to protect their master
u mean like a yorkiepom ?
Not a clue.
You still haven't clarificatified your recent message re the true identity of certain trolls here, Lola. This downvoting is handy because the trolls can't help identifying their enemies.
Jun 24, 2024
0
#12548
MARattigan wrote:
The first position is a basic chess position. It's not covered in any published tablebase I know of.
This is just a minor deficiency which is inessential. There is no reason that 3 piece tablebase can't include castling. A hypothetical 32 piece one certainly would have to!
I was simply pointing out that you'd omitted to mention that minor deficiency. It would mean the production of several thousand new tablebases, which I think is why it's still a minor deficiency as of now.
I am not sure why most tablebases don't include positions with castling. It would not add much computational demand. I suppose it is a combination of being of not being of much practical value (I am not sure castling in a position with 7 or fewer pieces has ever played a role in a real game) and being an unaesthetic complication.
So in that case the structure produced by Syzygy is presumably not a proof tree for competition rules chess on the grounds that it's not a tree (or even two trees) and the nodes are not positions (at least not in the same game) but equivalence classes of positions without evaluations common across each equivalence class. Would that be correct?
A proof tree is the exhibition of a strategy that achieves a value for a player (usually ending where a node is in the tablebase). In that sense, given trust of the validity of the tablebase, the proof tree for positions in the table is already complete for each position: it tells you the value of a position and provides you with a perfect strategy: - always play the best move in the tablebase!
You could of course generate an explicit proof tree (one that could be used independently of the tablebase, and might be more compact than it) by very simple recursion as follows.
- play the tablebase-best move for the proponent
- generate all the positions reached by legal moves by the opponent
- repeat step 1 for those positions
Finally prune all the positions never reached, leaving half an explicit weak solution.
It might be interesting to look at the sizes of some weak solutions generated like this for tablebase positions. While they would be expected to be quite compact for winning strategies because there is a depth to mate that is directional, it's not so clear for drawing strategies. Syzygy just says "Draw" with no information like "depth to repetition" (itself not ideal).
(The only true leaf nodes in a strategy/proof tree are mates and stalemates. When a position is repeated in a drawing strategy, the strategy just continues to execute and will get the draw according to FIDE rules).
Jun 24, 2024
0
#12549
Elroch wrote:
@Optimissed sometimes fantasises that either all the people who disagree with him are alts of some single Nemesis, or that there are secret cabal meetings to co-ordinate the imagined war against him.
And since Optimissed constantly projects (constantly dishonestly accuses others of being and doing what he does) that suggests that its Optimissed who is using alts.
Jun 24, 2024
0
#12550
This next from the new 'solved' forum:
Good post by MEGA
"ah yes, optimissed. baseless insults instead of actual arguments. what's great is that I don't even need to warn people about you, your posts have so little substance to them people figure it out almost instantly on their own.
Considering how middle school math topics stumped you in other threads, it's a *little* hard to believe that your maths education is what you say, as well as the fact that not a single math topic that you've presented or interacted with has gone beyond the early highschool level. You might have studied maths into colelge, but that doesnt mean that I (and others) didnt learn your "university" maths in middle school or highschool.
I'm not even writing this out as a defense of myself. I feel no need to defend myself from you. I am writing this because I feel you yourself need to know how you are considered by myself and others."
------------------------------------
MEGA is correct. O 'needs to know'. And O is Optimissed.
But O operates in a zone whereby if enough people don't 'figure it out on their own' temporarily - then he can and does live in that zone.
His 'nirvana' that he makes his life mission - is to get opening posters to block anybody who opposes him - and to get the chess.com staff to mute anybody who does too.
Been his 'life's work' for ten years now. On this website.
But Result Instead: O gets blocked by some of the best posters and himself gets muted by chess.com including twice very recently.
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In the latest installment - he finally took a self-imposed rest for three days - absolutely essential for him to avoid three mutes in a row by chess,.com.
Why mention?
Even though posters can figure him out on their own - he gets temporary 'advantage' by them getting blindsided for a while. Especially people unfamiliar. Or kids.
Why doesn't he and people like him just make their own forums and block whoever they don't like?
Because then they don't get to complain and be masochistic is why.
----------------------------------------------------
and now - the forum topic.
Why is it shifting here from the other 'never be solved' forum?
the opening poster there doesn't have an account.
For another - a new forum creates some new approach and new dynamics.
For another - new opening posters get to put the forum topic and questions their way.
And many prefer that to just continuing with the same forum.
----------------------------
Is it a great topic?
The short answer is yes.
Because it pertains to the game of chess as a whole.
Part of putting it in perspective.
And is relevant to how it was designed and evolved.
The most popular indoor game of all time?
Well - cards is popular too but that's often for money. And is usually a group game.
How is the most popular indoor one-on-one game in world history designed?
What was in mind?
Chess didn't start with any one person.
It evolved into its current form.
In western europe. (although its previous forms started in India).
The development of chess in its modern form was centered in France - which was also the geographically central country in the development of math and science.
For hundreds of years the greats in math and science were born and lived and operated in France or in very nearby countries. Until the 1800s when America entered that picture too.
---------------------------
And computers have helped it - instead of hurting it.
Chess was designed and evolved - to Not be solved.
And before computers too.
And tygxc has already admitted that it can't be solved with current technology.
So the discussion over the last two years has revolved around 'solving alternatives'.
In other words - what actually happens.
And other interpretations of 'solving'.
Have you been that way for all your life? It's pretty sad isn't it. Also sad that you have nothing else to do than to make a fool of yourelf here, along with the other candidates. You've probably never seen your master being taken apart before like I took him apart. Exposed him as a number of things and none of it is flattering. Someone who constantly changes his story. Tries to make sure no-one knows what he's arguing for. Then someone who makes troll posts and has to pretend he never made them, even though they will be there for the moderators to find should it become useful.
Jun 24, 2024
0
#12552
Skipped reading O's post just now. The one above this one.
He began his post with an invalid premise.
Dead giveaway and blunder he constantly makes.
He wants one on one 'you and me' pingpong now but is constantly deprived.
Somebody else will make a better post. By next login probably.
You must excuse me for more typos than usual. I burned my fingers, hence wasn't posting. Also busy, which is something you never heard of. Mind you, your other master cooks things. Insults people and when they complain, goes hysterical because ppl are trying to disturb him at his cooking. Must be difficult being a well-known troll about town.
playerafar wrote:
Skipped reading O's post just now. The one above this one.
He began his post with an invalid premise.
Dead giveaway and blunder he constantly makes.
He wants one on one 'you and me' pingpong now but is constantly deprived.
Somebody else will make a better post soon enough.
Oh did you skip reading it? Aren't you the clever one then. Funny thought that you think being that way all your life's an invalid premise. It seems pretty valid to most people.
Jun 24, 2024
0
#12555
Before I log off ...
another invalid beginning by O.
Nobody 'must'. He has no authority.
Skipped the rest of that too.
Are you your own master or your own servant though? A conundrum.
playerafar wrote:
Before I log off ...
another invalid beginning by O.
Nobody 'must'. He has no authority.
Skipped the rest of that too.
It isn't a case of authority, slobberchops. It's a case of pointing out something that's true. Funny you think that YOU have authority though, and your master has authority and your friends as well! Are you getting confused again?
My wife's grandma had a cat called Gibchops.
ive always felt more slavey than mistress. not sure why. id rather be led than followed i guess. louzy in leadership me