Chess will never be solved, here's why

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Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

Are you a Russian agent or something, Dio? It seems that you take deceit to an unparalleled level, almost as if it's your job.

That's one possible scenario where being a psycho is a positive on your cv. Maybe you're recruiting anti-Western agents and that's your real job?

Maybe you are due for a straightjacket. Only in your narcissistic mind could a Russian agent be interested in someone like you.

Avatar of Optimissed
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

Are you a Russian agent or something, Dio? It seems that you take deceit to an unparalleled level, almost as if it's your job.

That's one possible scenario where being a psycho is a positive on your cv. Maybe you're recruiting anti-Western agents and that's your real job?

Maybe you are due for a straightjacket. Only in your narcissistic mind could a Russian agent be interested in someone like you.

Maybe you are. There's one of you and about three or four trolls and maybe some alts to support you. That's all you've got. No-one else trusts you an inch and quite rightly. I'm on friendly terms with pretty much everyone here except you. I know for a fact that you are disliked my most who know you, so any fragile ego comments are pointing at yourself. Same with narcissism. Narcissism is a definite symptom of psychopathy.

Wow I just realised you took that comment about Russians seriously. happy.png It was a joke, made to point out what your character is very obviously like.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

Except that he did, which makes you the liar. Also what's all this fragile ego stuff? It obviously applies to you and you decided you hated me when I caught you out in one too many falsehood. Life is too short to go around hating people and those of us who are mentally healthy don't do it. You definitely do do it and in fact it dominates your entire life.

You think three posters who are definitely NOT seperate mean anything, in comparison to the 1000s of people who don't try to manipulate and con people? Fester is innocent and there's no connection. A completely unrelated insident. He was going through a lot at the time and he only joins in with whoever he feels like because he's a bit bored. I would think the same applies to MAR.

It's four poster's word against your contorted delusions.

Avatar of Optimissed
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

Except that he did, which makes you the liar. Also what's all this fragile ego stuff? It obviously applies to you and you decided you hated me when I caught you out in one too many falsehood. Life is too short to go around hating people and those of us who are mentally healthy don't do it. You definitely do do it and in fact it dominates your entire life.

You think three posters who are definitely NOT seperate mean anything, in comparison to the 1000s of people who don't try to manipulate and con people? Fester is innocent and there's no connection. A completely unrelated insident. He was going through a lot at the time and he only joins in with whoever he feels like because he's a bit bored. I would think the same applies to MAR.

It's four poster's word against your contorted delusions.

Count fester out. I don't remember an incident particularly, so I probably decided that he was either playing or genuinely mistaken. Ziryab has taken a big step backwards. I rarely see him and when I do, we get along ok. I'm getting along well with Elroch and wish to keep it that way. You are the real psycho round here and only you and Mega are talking about this. Why should Mega want to support an obvious nutter like you, unless you were in actuality quite close to one-another?

Basically, your comments don't add up. It seems you will do quite a lot to try to discredit someone you see as your enemy and that means that someone must be pretty important to you, but all you have is yourself and possibly two apparently mentally ill alts.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

Are you a Russian agent or something, Dio? It seems that you take deceit to an unparalleled level, almost as if it's your job.

That's one possible scenario where being a psycho is a positive on your cv. Maybe you're recruiting anti-Western agents and that's your real job?

Maybe you are due for a straightjacket. Only in your narcissistic mind could a Russian agent be interested in someone like you.

Maybe you are. There's one of you and about three or four trolls and maybe some alts to support you. That's all you've got. No-one else trusts you an inch and quite rightly.

Wow I just realised you took that comment about Russians seriously. It was a joke, made to point out what your character is very obviously like.

"Maybe you are"? Lol. That's your best comeback?

With your delusional mind, nobody can take anything for granted.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

Count fester out. I don't remember an incident particularly, so I probably decided that he was either playing or genuinely mistaken. Ziryab has taken a big step backwards. I rarely see him and when I do, we get along ok. I'm getting along well with Elroch and wish to keep it that way. You are the real psycho round here and only you and Mega are talking about this. Why should Mega want to support an obvious nutter like you, unless you were in actuality quite close to one-another?

Basically, your comments don't add up. It seems you will do quite a lot to try to discredit someone you see as your enemy and that means that someone must be pretty important to you, but all you have is yourself and possibly two apparently mentally ill alts.

Keep telling yourself stories to help you cope, I guess.

Avatar of MEGACHE3SE
tygxc wrote:

@14758

"high confidence and justified certainty"
++ odds for 1 of the 114 draws having 2 errors: (1/115)² = 0.008%.
Odds of all 114 draws containing 1 error and chess not being a draw: (1/115)^114 = 10^-235

where do those probability numbers come from, tygxc?

your feelings? whether or not a game is a win or draw has no bearing on whether it contains errors unless you can prove it is the case. You assume it is the case .

proof by high probability isnt a thing tygxc. this is... one of the most basic mathematical principles.

"you should be willing to wager unlimited value against a return of minuscule value"
++ You confuse mathematics with psychology.
In poker people raise and win with bad hands and people fold and lose with good hands.

Actual delusional fantasy, hard to know where to begin.

tygxc: is asked to clarify mathematical certainty.

tygxc's response: 'in poker you sometimes win with bad hands'

you still havent given your math proof education tygxc, its quite obvious that you didnt even take a middleschool/highschool course.

at this point its a redundant question tbh.

Avatar of MEGACHE3SE
Optimissed wrote:
MEGACHE3SE wrote:

i wonder if optimissed stands by this

Of course I do. I wouldn't point out something like that if I were not completely sure. If I were you I should let it drop, both for your own sake and for the sake of those you look up to.

I'm prepared to drop it but it's still completely true and could be proven to be true. Make a complaint and ask a moderator to check that what I describe didn't happen. Unfortunately for you, they can uncover evidence of deleted posts, including deleted denials of having made posts. It should be simple for a person of your great ability to look into. They can prove it happened and you'll be in front of a firing squad.

k good, im going to reference it a lot in the future, so i want to make sure that im not quoting you out of your intended tone.

Avatar of Elroch
tygxc wrote:

@14758

"high confidence and justified certainty"
++ odds for 1 of the 114 draws having 2 errors: (1/115)² = 0.008%.

Describe the precise assumptions of this calculation and the reasoning used. (If you knew what you are talking about, this would be trivial).

Avatar of MEGACHE3SE
Elroch wrote:
tygxc wrote:

@14758

"high confidence and justified certainty"
++ odds for 1 of the 114 draws having 2 errors: (1/115)² = 0.008%.

Describe the precise assumptions of this calculation and the reasoning used. (If you knew what you are talking about, this would be trivial).

you forget that tygxc's core assumption is "nearly all possible assumptions that i make can be ignored with impunity".

Avatar of playerafar

Deleting posts is not usually something the moderators concern themselves with.
Some of the time - the staff can or does recover deleted posts but not always.
Usually they are just 'gone'.
The most 'deleting of posts' person I know of is by EE.
EndgameEnthusiast.
There's a number at the end of his name too.
He deletes his posts in the 'Hoax' forum constantly.
Usually at the ends of his logins.
--------------------
Usually there's nothing wrong with a member deleting a post or editing a post.
Although its rare.
I often delete a post to replace it with an improved post.
Or edit a post - again to improve it.
Or on occasion - just delete.
Nothing wrong with doing so. Per se.
-----------------------------
EE apparently deletes his posts constantly because he's worried he'll be actioned by the staff.

Avatar of playerafar

As for fester being muted that could be with nobody reporting him and the bots got him or because somebody did report him.
Probably unfairly. He's done nothing to deserve it.

Avatar of Optimissed
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

Are you a Russian agent or something, Dio? It seems that you take deceit to an unparalleled level, almost as if it's your job.

That's one possible scenario where being a psycho is a positive on your cv. Maybe you're recruiting anti-Western agents and that's your real job?

Maybe you are due for a straightjacket. Only in your narcissistic mind could a Russian agent be interested in someone like you.

Maybe you are. There's one of you and about three or four trolls and maybe some alts to support you. That's all you've got. No-one else trusts you an inch and quite rightly.

Wow I just realised you took that comment about Russians seriously. It was a joke, made to point out what your character is very obviously like.

"Maybe you are"? Lol. That's your best comeback?

With your delusional mind, nobody can take anything for granted.

Why don't you calm down? Trying to convince other people that I'm delusional is a ploy, I suppose. But anyone who knows you will know that it's more likely to apply to yourself.

The "maybe you are" was a reference to being delusional. I'm not sure about you. It's a case of weighing up which indicates that you are more unbalanced. Is it you being genuinely delusional or is it that you really do invent things and deliberately deceive people as a compulsive behaviour? It seems to me that I'm the one with the natural aptitude to understand psychology and you're the one who is difficult to understand, unless we come down to the obvious answer that your entire business here is to deceive people. Many others have reached that conclusion about you.

Incidentally, you corrected a typo of mine a little while ago. I'll correct one of yours.

Four posters' words.
You corrected me a while back. You wrote "four poster's words".

Avatar of Optimissed
MEGACHE3SE wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
MEGACHE3SE wrote:

i wonder if optimissed stands by this

Of course I do. I wouldn't point out something like that if I were not completely sure. If I were you I should let it drop, both for your own sake and for the sake of those you look up to.

I'm prepared to drop it but it's still completely true and could be proven to be true. Make a complaint and ask a moderator to check that what I describe didn't happen. Unfortunately for you, they can uncover evidence of deleted posts, including deleted denials of having made posts. It should be simple for a person of your great ability to look into. They can prove it happened and you'll be in front of a firing squad.

k good, im going to reference it a lot in the future, so i want to make sure that im not quoting you out of your intended tone.

If I were you, I think I would drop it and try to behave like a normal human. If you are a normal human, you're mediocre and I suppose ok at what you do in life. But here you seem to be out of your depth. Someone who obviously doesn't understand very much at all isn't going to be able to make relevant deductions or reach relevant conclusions. Some people in this thread are brighter than others and if you are one of those others, that means that you don't understand that you should be watching and trying to learn, but not by thinking you're clever enough to get involved in what is really a discussion about some people here deliberately misleading others. Since I know what happened because I was there and I saw it, that means that I know that either you are not capable of thinking for yourself and so you are easily decieved by others or that you are working with those others. If this, what is happening here, were actually serious and not just some clown called Dio trying to manipulate people because he has a fragile ego which he constantly mentions, would it be better for you not to be involved or would you want to be seen to be involved with him?

The overall likelihood is that more people will believe me than him because he is known for what he is. The only people who have ever called me dishonest are trolls and that's just because it may be clear to them that personal integrity is important to me. And so is honesty. Most people don't try to pretend I'm delusional. Again, only trolls have ever tried that, because it's a well-known gas-lighting technique and trolls are not all that bright or they wouldn't be trolls. You could have an IQ of say 169 and a mental condition that renders it useless. A person might once have performed at that level but no more is it possible. Now, anyone who is intelligent will know that I'm intelligent. We usually recognise each other. The only people who do not recognise it are either dishonest or not bright enough to recognise it.

It's everyone's choice to behave as they wish in a public forum like this. I have better logical ability than any of your friends. Your friends may have expertise that I don't. If you don't have much logical ability then you can't follow it, so you don't see it. Simple as that.

Avatar of playerafar

"Why don't you calm down?" from Optimissed just now.
Optimissed should follow his own advice instead of trying to project his own behaviour onto good posters such as Dio and Mega and Elroch and others.
But O won't do that.
And instead obsesses over a 'cartel' against him and tries to scare people by claiming he is 'talking to staff'.
Decent people oppose his trolling and since he's fragile and delicate its often too much for him. So he gets himself muted and blocked and takes absences including claiming he 'burned his fingers'.

Most people are absent when they feel like it. But because Optimissed is obsessed he needs 'an excuse' to conceal his real reason for recent absences.
Because he was and is humiliated and embarassed by being rightly exposed and criticized by Dio and Elroch and others.
Optimissed never gets it that if he keeps foolishly inflating himself that he's going to get his bubbles burst every time.
He will continue to be Deflated. Every time.
Then he complains. Every time.
A predictable pattern from him for ten years now.

Avatar of Optimissed

This is getting really interesting. Troll after troll wants to discredit me. Do thay want to discredit something I've said? Yet they always claim not to be working together. It's completely obvious that they're working together since this nonsense isn't even based on anything real.

Just wondering out loud.

Avatar of playerafar

I haven't looked at Optimissed's latest post just now but I'm guessing its some kind of attempt to evade my previous post and to pretend that he has 'answered'.
His posts are very low priority and I often skip them completely.
There are much better posters here and whose posts are worth reading in their entirety.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

Why don't you calm down?

I am always calm, which is readily apparent every time you try this tired tactic.

Trying to convince other people that I'm delusional is a ploy, I suppose.

You display it in this very post when you talk about having natural aptitude that others lack.

But anyone who knows you will know that it's more likely to apply to yourself.

The "maybe you are" was a reference to being delusional. I'm not sure about you. It's a case of weighing up which indicates that you are more unbalanced. Is it you being genuinely delusional or is it that you really do invent things and deliberately deceive people as a compulsive behaviour? It seems to me that I'm the one with the natural aptitude to understand psychology and you're the one who is difficult to understand, unless we come down to the obvious answer that your entire business here is to deceive people. Many others have reached that conclusion about you.

Most long term posters know that "many others" in your parlance refers to only two, Lola and Daffodil Girl, both posters of dubious repute on the forums like yourself. Possibly ExploringWA as well, but you normally eschew male peers (insecurity), so I'm guessing you stick to the two ladies with daddy issues.

Incidentally, you corrected a typo of mine a little while ago. I'll correct one of yours.

That wasn't recent. If you are going to nitpick and try to excuse yourself in advance, realize that in the end you only manage a pitiable combination of pettiness and obsequiousness when you try to act clever. Just say what you mean without the cloying attempts at wit. 

Four posters' words.
You corrected me a while back. You wrote "four poster's words".

You're overreaching again. This is your only recourse, apparently.

Avatar of playerafar

There is an aspect of behaviour in paranoid personality disorders where the subject exhibits 'grandiose' behaviour and tries to outwardly maintain that he or she has 'unique and superior abilities'.
Optimissed constantly exhibits such delusions - along with his many other transient and disorganized delusions.
He also never gets it that he's making a huge social blunder every time he tries to proclaim 'superior intelligence' ... thereby immediately contradicting his own claims.
In other words he is not even internally consistent.
Instead - his delusions are disorganized.

Avatar of MaetsNori
tygxc wrote:

++ 114 out of 114 (draws), and in the strongest chess on the planet:
17 ICCF (grand)masters who qualified + engines 2*90 million positions/s, 5 days/move ...
It provides 114 links from the initial position to certain draws.

We can't call these "certain" draws, because we can't claim certainty over the accuracy of them.

Any mistakes that today's centaurs make will not be noticed currently - because they are playing at highest level that our current engines can see.

But any mistakes made in current centuar games will be noticeable a decade or so from now.

For example, I've pulled up a game from the ICCF WC from 2013 (one decade ago).

This was the final drawing game, from the winner of the tournament:

White is stuck with a repetion (through checks). If he doesn't do this, then Black will complete his own game-winning attack. So the game ends in a draw.

Best chess on the planet? Let's see what today's Stockfish (from 10 years in the future, compared to the engines used in that game) thinks:

SF 16.1 considers White's 20th move to be a mistake.

Let's see what SF says would have been better:

A tablebase win for White.

Feel free to analyze this game on your own ...

Any way we cut it, 20. Nd4 was a mistake from White, compared to today's standards. SF 16.1 on my laptop declares that it may have been a missed win, even ...

After the forcing sequence of moves that follows it (20. Bxf6 Nxf6
21. Rg5 Kg8 22. e5 dxe5 23. fxe5 Ng4 24. Bh7+ Kf8 25. Rxh5), my laptop declares that White is winning by +1.5.

Case in point: as long as engines continue to advance in strength, the chess that we once thought of as "flawless" will eventually be shown to be inaccurate ...

This applies to the current ICCF games, as well. We can't see any mistakes in those games, because we only have the same level of engines to analyze with.

But engines from the year 2035 and beyond will almost certainly find mistakes (perhaps even game-deciding mistakes, like the game above) from today's best draws ...

We won't be able to declare absolute certainty over the accuracy of our chess until a hypothetical 32-man tablebase arrives ...