chessmasterschool.com

I'm thinking of joining up for the program at www.chessmasterschool.com  to try and improve my chess  I have been out for about 12 yrs or so.  Has any body  ever joined that program?  can anybody tell me anything about the program 

Skimmed through what the site offers. For what they charge (24.00 USD) a month, I don't see a few things that YOU REALLY should be getting:

- NO Analysis of your own games by stronger players
This is as informative to a coach as a blood test is to your doctor.

- NO Customized lesson plan that caters to your own strengths and 's weaknesses
Something about their teaching method appears to be a unidirectional broadcast of the same drills with maybe some customized responses to your answer. Chess Mentor already does that and offers a whole lot more via chess.com's practice/training features.  Would you play 12 x 24.00 to chess.com for drills + customized answers ? I guess not ... but I'm afraid that's pretty much all you are getting.

- NO SOCRATIC interaction

My own coach shows me positions and asks me to evaluate + analyze them vocally.  He then rips apart holes in my thinking and shows me where I'm going wrong.   He doesn't just tell me stuff and expect 100% absorption ... he asks questions, figures out where the holes in my reasoning are and pushes me to the boundaries of my knowledge ... any good coach will do that (the socratic way of learning by asking questions) for you.  Many coaches who are not IM/GMs but perhaps experts or National Masters will charge you a little more per hour (25-40.00) but you get a ton more value for your money's worth.

- REALLY SHADY description of why a real coach is bad

Would you buy a Chevy JUST because they spin you an ad about how a toyota cannot match up to new MPG estimates that the hummer-maker GM  suddenly invested in? Nope ... notice how this site lampoons the value of a coach:

So essentially,  he waves a magic wand and generalizes coaches as moody over-priced people who don't give you enough both in terms of quantity and quality.  

Can you smell the snake oil?

So my two cents is ... be a  smart shopper and get a real coach. 

From my point of view, above comment has no good justification as Shivsky is not our student. Even if I am administrator of this program, I do not want to tell if/how our program is good.

I just post one of the many feedbacks that our students send to us:

"Hello, I have been following your course since the beginning of 2008 and
wanted to tell you that I just had a huge chess success.  I played in my
first international tournament and finished with an even score of 4.5/9,
FIDE performance of 2288, and local performance of 2344.  I have used almost
exclusively your materials to attain this level of performance and really
appreciate your making them available.

Is it true that you are working on a second year to the course?  I cannot
wait if that is true!!!

Thanks again,
Matt Hassen

p.s.: My result is on the FIDE website now! http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=2045370 "

Almost all our students like very much our course, even if, of course, many of them have also personal trainers, subscriptions to other courses, many other books etc.

That's all I had to say. Thank you.

Apparently my comments on what a product does NOT offer are not justified because I choose to "NOT" buy it.    There's an economics lesson for you, people.

Not to sound too harsh, but any site that "generically"  under-rates the value of a human coach isn't really being fair and balanced now, is it?  Products earn their trust by showcasing their merits and not claiming "A is better than B" statistics that have no research/basis to back them up. 

If you guys really want to prove your worth, skip the fake advertising and just go with your testimonials. 

Also => Last time I checked, Chess.com forbids plugging a website that competes in terms of offering paid chess lessons...

I looked for no advertising here (fake? or not). Do you see any link other than FIDE.com? I will be more than happy if chess.com staff delete this topic. But I think I have the right of defending against your comments.

Beside the fact that from Coca-Cola to any local store use advertising to say how their product is of any good, you can see that we indicated that interraction with a coach is "HIGH". That's good, isn't it? So, why do you put words in my mouth?

Without even seeing our course, you asked people go away from our chess school and go somewhere else. Who promotes what?

I only thought that a feedback from someone who finished our 12-month course has more value than yours.

Dear Shivsky, I think it's enough from now on for everybody to judge on their own if they wish.

What was that guy's rating before he took the course? I don't believe it said.

It can be seen in the fide link that he had no international rating at all.

However, I intend not to tell anything more as it can be considered "fake" advertising?! Also, I do not want to "prove our worth" here. I just wanted to defend against a dirrect attack (as chess is a turn-based strategy game). . Thank you for understanding.

Words in your mouth? Let's recap:

Interaction with a human being => High.  Sure, you're agreeing that a coach will be highly interactive.  Can't give you props for that because claiming this wasn't the case would really make little sense.

Now can you justify the the other "comparison" claims in bold?  If you can justify that these claims encompass the vast majority of coaches, I'll admit that I am totally wrong, apologize for going postal  and  run away with my tail between my legs from this thread.  

If you can't ... then this is precisely the fake ... or should I be more gentle ... inaccurate advertising that I referred to.

Don't get me wrong ... your site may be the best thing in the world for chess players ... as you correctly stated, I never tried it ... though when you want somebody who can discern "good" from "bad" to try your site out, it appears to me that the claims you make in your packaging/advertising is more of a negative to your business than a plus.  

You just can't make vague generalizations to prove your product offers more. It denigrates chess coaches as a whole, many of whom happen to be offering rock solid guidance on this very website.  Sure there are a few bad apples who may do a bad job mentoring/coaching/instructing, but you seem to be condemning the entire profession to inadequacy.

A website like Chess.com did not have to make claims like that to succeed.  You guys shouldn't have to, either.

LOL.  So for any scepticism to have merit, you have to PAY and be a student first!

Shivsky gives his arguments. My answer for him: all of us, give private face-2-face lessons or even online chess lessons. These lessons are not for money, so not commercialized. We know what a coach can do. We also know very well what a bad chess coach can do... We didn't say a coach is bad. Where is that?Ok, maybe we need someone like you to make our presentation page. Everything in our talk is reduced to the advertising. The rest, hundreds of lessons that might be good or bad cannot be discussed with you.

Dewriat, lol, indeed, let's "constructivly" criticize something we didn't see. LOL. lol. LOL.

All I had to say, I said. Good luck and enjoy chess, it's just a game.

p.s. Dewriat just changed his comment. He said something that made me really lough. Now he changed.... ok.

I am a perpetual sceptic and do not trust testimonials because it is so easy for the vendor to cherry pick the the desired results.

Since this program seems to emphasize "12 month" curriculum, it should post the student's uscf/fide rating 6 months before starting the program and 6 months after the 12 month mark.

Numbers are clean, unemotional, and speak more convincingly than a person's testimonial.

dewriat, with your second comment You demonstrate you didn't understand anything from this talk. Sceptimism is normal and wellcomed. Bad intention, sending possible sceptimist away as shivsky wants, is a dubious attack.

That was all about.

That discussion is just loosing my time and the time of other people who use their logic a bit.

Adios!

I changed my post while you posted.  I originally said Shiv "constructively criticized" your page--which he did. All he did was post REASONS why he did not like the program.  What's the big deal??? I edited my post and replaced it with "scepticism" because it is more appropriate in the context of the discussion even though "constructive criticism" would have worked just as well.  I am sorry if I got your panties in a bunch.

If your program is so good, I don't see why you are getting all bent out of shape and so defencive;  I am pretty sure that the people at the Kasparov school don't. The original poster wanted opinions and that is what they got.  Deal with it.

Wow.  And you work for this company with such a bad attitude?  I hope anyone intrested in this company reads this so they can see what kind of people run it.  The over defencive attitude alone is reason not to pay for the program.

In your opinion what makes your programed lesson different to chess.com's, chess mentor? Is there a money back guarantee on it and for how long? do u have to stick to a 12mth curriculum or will it continue until course is finished?

P.S. You also pay your chess.com membership monthly unless you cancel it personally or they charge you regardless of whether your active on here or not.

Do you want a good attitude? You started with a "lol". You posted something, then changed. Your thing with "sceptimism" has nothing to do with the rest of the talk.

I am telling again, I do not want anything from you other than understand what is behind these empty attacks? I don't really need an answer.

 Chess Mentor is probably the best program on the Earth. I didn't see it and I am also not interested.

I didn't come here to make other comparison. I just wanted to point that any comment to our program that came from people like s.. and d.. has no basis as they didn't see a lesson. For me, only results can talk. With full name and link to fide site, I've posted one of the many.

And the money back guarantee? Like with chess.com you get 30days money back if not satisfied which i like.

NO Customized lesson plan that caters to your own strengths and 's weaknesses
Something about their teaching method appears to be a unidirectional broadcast of the same drills with maybe some customized responses to your answer. Chess Mentor already does that and offers a whole lot more via chess.com's practice/training features.  Would you play 12 x 24.00 to chess.com for drills + customized answers ? I guess not ... but I'm afraid that's pretty much all you are getting.

Is this true?

By the way if it's probably the best on earth(chess mentor) as u said why wouldn't you check it out as you ask us to do for the site you just promoted? You wouldn't have posted it unless you wanted us to check it out and maybe try it.

They should post trial lessons. That would allow people to decide whether they find this way of studying suitable and useful. Otherwise any critical-minded person would be skeptical.