Could I beat a GM with a queen handicap

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chess2Knights

I think I could easily beat a Grandmaster at Queen odds, since I have already beat masters and drawn senior masters without odds in USCF tournaments. A queen is a lot.

RC_Woods

I'd be interested in seeing games won with a Queen handicap. How does one go about this?

I think that it might be easier (in a practical sense) to overcome rook odds than knight odds. The knights plays an important role early on, and one is deeply missed when gone. The rooks only come into play later, and there are many games that conclude before the a1/a8 rook has moved.

The queen is both more powerfull than the rook, and much easier to bring into the game. Therefore, I think a Queen handicap is almost impossible to overcome.

Kingwraith
dannyhume wrote:

Shankland is just being polite...wasn't he gonna retire, and now he is crushing everyone and got 3 GM norms quickly like it was nothing?  Go Shank.


 My understanding is that he decided to quit professional chess not playing chess altogether.  I think he was putting off college for awhile to see if he could play chess professionally but gave up on that.  I believe he's in college now.  I could be wrong but that's how danny rensch explained it on his show one time.

SenilePinkHipster

A queen handicap? That would be a walk in the park I think :P

bigdoug

Maybe I'll try playing Fritz with Queen odds - anyone ever done that?  I bet it would be tough to win.

bigdoug

Yeah, the problem is that the computer never misses tactics but humans often miss them - if I have the time I'll try it and let you know Smile

Hypocrism

I don't think there is anyone alive who could beat me with queen odds consistently.

bigdoug

There is another interesting remark from Larry Evans about another type of odds giving - he said that if an ordinary player had the right to make two moves in a row, only once per game, he could become world champion.  Makes you think about wasting those tempos, huh?

draconlord

Going over my games, especially the ones where I've blundered early on, I think(if I don't grow overconfident/arrogant) I could probably consistently beat a 1200* given rook odds.

 

Now Queen odds, that's just impossible...

*online rating, not otb.

I don't think a grandmaster could beat anyone over 1400 in standard time-controls otb or correspondence. At least, not more than once...

I mean, how often do class players ever drop more than one piece a game? 

Basically, to get an advantage(we'll assume it's pretty hard to set up a mating attack down a queen), the handicapped player has to figure out a way to win a)back the queen b)2 rooks or c)3 minor pieces*. 

Since most players resign when down a single minor piece, the expectation is that somehow the lesser player will either drop a queen or make at least 3 ?? moves. In a single game. Up a queen. While trying his best to simplify. 

 

*ok, maybe two minor pieces and a couple of pawns would be enough, but still...

heinzie

I know I wouldn't score 100%

Archaic71

GM's might be able to turtle up and hold some draws without a queen, but I doubt they would ever be able to win against anybody with even a 1600 OTB rating otherwise. 

ivanx00

When I saw this post I immediately remembered Greg Shahade story about 'The 50,000 Game'. This is a true story and it's all around a rooks odds gamble game. You should read it since it is very interesting:

http://main.uschess.org/content/view/6594/358/

pathfinder416

In bullet play, I have repeatedly shown that I can lose a game with queen odds.

TomBarrister

A grandmaster would have a much better chance than a computer at Queen odds.

Also, a grandmaster would have a much better chance at short time controls.

A Queen is too powerful an attacking piece to give as odds to anybody who plays even reasonably well.

Eniamar

I'm actually doing the reverse of Greg's play. I'm a much, much better poker player than I am at chess. A lot of guys in the chess scene around here either are interested or think they're good and want to play some sit and go tournaments. 

What I guess that don't realize is that I supported myself for almost 3 years solely on gambling. It's a lot harder to guarantee an overall win due to chance, but maybe I'll write up something about my experience. I honestly expect to make money in every game we play, inexperienced people are simply too predictable.

Archaic71

The Shahade story was great.

bigdoug

Thanx ivanx00,that was a great article!

waffllemaster

Could I beat a GM with a queen handicap

In a tournament length game, you better :)

In blitz, maybe not.

Like others have said it wouldn't be anything like that silly computer game heh.

Elubas
bigdoug wrote:

There is another interesting remark from Larry Evans about another type of odds giving - he said that if an ordinary player had the right to make two moves in a row, only once per game, he could become world champion.  Makes you think about wasting those tempos, huh?


Well that's cause you could threaten a tactic and execute it at the same time, which could win as much as a queen or king.

RC_Woods
Elubas wrote:
bigdoug wrote:

There is another interesting remark from Larry Evans about another type of odds giving - he said that if an ordinary player had the right to make two moves in a row, only once per game, he could become world champion.  Makes you think about wasting those tempos, huh?


Well that's cause you could threaten a tactic and execute it at the same time, which could win as much as a queen or king.


Damn chess, u scary!