do you also think it´s unfair that women get titled easier?

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chessterchief
Mermaum wrote:
nMsALpg wrote:
Mermaum wrote:

when you take into consideration the social expectations and opportunities, among other factors that, all else equal, make it easier for [males] to develop their chess when compared to [females]

Yes, for example by making "women" titles easier to get, it sends the messages that society expects less from females.

 

If that is what you absorbed from everything I wrote then you're a lost case. Maybe I was wrong and it wasn't dishonesty in your part, it was just lack of competence to interpret basic english as you seem to ignore everything else I said that supports that statement you quoted and that goes directly against what you wrote.

 

Also, from what you've said, I can tell you have no idea what the "spirit" of my arguments are.

this says nothing. this is merely a personal attack. make the point of your argument clear.

Mermaum
chessterchief wrote:

this says nothing. this is merely a personal attack. make the point of your argument clear.

 

I did.  He ignored the rest of my argument that goes against what he argued and replied to one small sentence of my argument, isolated from its context and explanation, by just repeating what he had already said. But this is evidence that apparently this strategy works.

Personal attacks? Lol yea I'm sure he's super offended and won't sleep tonight. No attacks and nothing personal here, I'm simply trying to guess why he keeps on doing that. But in any case I do apologize for those very harsh words to anyone who might feel offended.

And fyi the point is clear:  for instance if I compliment a dude on a cool hairstyle, someone like @nMsALpg for example could interpret as me sending a message that I'm gay, when in fact I just think the dude has cool hair. Bottomline is you can interpret pretty much anything however you like if you're not taking context into consideration.

LoveDvoretsky

As someone rightly pointed out, female titles have promoted mediocrity more than anything. I know ALOT of young girls who aspire to be 'WGM'. Well, nothing wrong in it! I'm not disparaging any female title by any means. But when we aspire, don't we aspire for the peak? A girl is sort of conditioned that she'll get prestige and privileges at WGM

Why try for GM (not even IM)...? 

Spider_027

Well, you can look at it with 2 perspectives

I will explain the part which is broader

It was initially done to attract women towards chess and was indeed a success,though small

But in today's time if you look at it considering women have freedom to play any sport and do not have any proven incompetence in the game of chess against the opposite gender

Giving them a separate elo system and title seems like a false encouragement

It very well could also be the reason why most women don't play chess or rather cut the easy way out

As common sense forces anyone to choose the short way out, women just stick to female titles cz of less competition

And well as many people said "They don't have much respect as female title holders in chess" is because of the titles themselves

People know they took the shortcut path so why bother respecting them if they ain't doing that much hardwork

And that is one of the main reasons why women generally don't take interest

So removing those titles now would have better chances of more women joining the community cz of fair competition and no shortcuts

It would rather be better if they are truly given a fair chance of representing themselves cz women's chess now straight up contradicts gender equality

David
Spider_027 wrote:

Well, you can look at it with 2 perspectives

I will explain the part which is broader

It was initially done to attract women towards chess and was indeed a success,though small

But in today's time if you look at it considering women have freedom to play any sport and do not have any proven incompetence in the game of chess against the opposite gender

Giving them a separate elo system and title seems like a false encouragement

It very well could also be the reason why most women don't play chess or rather cut the easy way out

As common sense forces anyone to choose the short way out, women just stick to female titles cz of less competition

And well as many people said "They don't have much respect as female title holders in chess" is because of the titles themselves

People know they took the shortcut path so why bother respecting them if they ain't doing that much hardwork

And that is one of the main reasons why women generally don't take interest

So removing those titles now would have better chances of more women joining the community cz of fair competition and no shortcuts

It would rather be better if they are truly given a fair chance of representing themselves cz women's chess now straight up contradicts gender equality

Typical terrible take. You say that the success of it in attracting women to chess is small and yet you think that it's done enough to level the playing field and can now be done away with. Women who actually play the game disagree with you:

https://chessdailynews.com/why-is-there-a-need-for-girls-or-womens-tournaments/

https://lichess.org/blog/X9i1gRUAAJzOKpd0/invisible-pieces-women-in-chess

https://en.chessbase.com/post/why-chess-tournaments-can-be-hostile-for-women-and-girls

https://www.chess.com/article/view/womens-roundtable-discussion

DelightfulLiberty
mpaetz wrote:

Women need to fulfill the exact same requirements as men to get FM, IM and GM titles. Due to a long historic bias against women in chess, and their exclusion from top competitions--a situation that has disappeared in much of the world in the last 25 years--FIDE long ago created separate titles for women. They continue to exist for two reasons: because there are still many places (Iran, Saudi Arabia, many more) where mixed-gender competition is strictly illegal; and to encourage more women to play chess, particularly in the great number of societies where women are treated as second-class citizens.

This is a very interesting post. I feel I've learned something. I don't know about this topic at all.

It seems, then, the continued existence of female only titles is primarily to try and counter sexist cultures. Is this a fair assessment?

If so, would it also fair to have an lgbtq+ title for the same reasons?

Also, can you explain to me what the different requirements are for the different titles, and why the female only title is considered less difficult to obtain than the unisex ones?

David
DelightfulLiberty wrote:

It seems, then, the continued existence of female only titles is primarily to try and counter sexist cultures. Is this a fair assessment?

Only when you can recognise that the culture is not limited to particular countries or religions, but that it's still a problem in the game overall.

That Chess.com Women in Chess Round Table Discussion is from just 9 days ago.

tytytey
xD I beat a wcm that what 1000 rated in bullet and I beat them when I was starting to play chess
tytytey
I was 700 rated in bullet
DelightfulLiberty
David wrote:
DelightfulLiberty wrote:

It seems, then, the continued existence of female only titles is primarily to try and counter sexist cultures. Is this a fair assessment?

Only when you can recognise that the culture is not limited to particular countries or religions, but that it's still a problem in the game overall.

That Chess.com Women in Chess Round Table Discussion is from just 9 days ago.

So chess is a sexist culture (though obviously it's only in certain areas that men and women cannot play together).

How does having female only titles help deal with this sexist chess culture?

David
DelightfulLiberty wrote:
David wrote:
DelightfulLiberty wrote:

It seems, then, the continued existence of female only titles is primarily to try and counter sexist cultures. Is this a fair assessment?

Only when you can recognise that the culture is not limited to particular countries or religions, but that it's still a problem in the game overall.

That Chess.com Women in Chess Round Table Discussion is from just 9 days ago.

So chess is a sexist culture (though obviously it's only in certain areas that men and women cannot play together).

How does having female only titles help deal with this sexist chess culture?

It encourages more women to play and participate in chess. Female titles alone are insufficient, of course - other positive steps also neeed to be taken. The fact that people want to say "The job is done, let's take away female titles" is in itself evidence that the culture still has a long ways to go.

DelightfulLiberty
David wrote:
DelightfulLiberty wrote:
David wrote:
DelightfulLiberty wrote:

It seems, then, the continued existence of female only titles is primarily to try and counter sexist cultures. Is this a fair assessment?

Only when you can recognise that the culture is not limited to particular countries or religions, but that it's still a problem in the game overall.

That Chess.com Women in Chess Round Table Discussion is from just 9 days ago.

So chess is a sexist culture (though obviously it's only in certain areas that men and women cannot play together).

How does having female only titles help deal with this sexist chess culture?

It encourages more women to play and participate in chess. Female titles alone are insufficient, of course - other positive steps also neeed to be taken. The fact that people want to say "The job is done, let's take away female titles" is in itself evidence that the culture still has a long ways to go.

How does having a female only title encourage more women to play within a sexist sub-culture?

And is it necessary that this title is easier to obtain than unisex titles?

SoupSailor
It’s a bit condescending to women, but I don’t think it’s a big issue.
SoupSailor
A more interesting question would be: Do men actually have a biological advantage, or have other factors caused them to dominate. Might make a forum about that.
HimalayanSaltLampLicker

Im kinda hot

HimalayanSaltLampLicker

Bro the guy above me is hot

DelightfulLiberty
HongDaHee wrote:

While it's true that woman's title are easier to get, there are significantly less woman chess players, so the titles were meant to be a way to encourage more woman to play chess

Also other than the woman's titles, woman can also get equal title to man (if they fit the norms)

How does it encourage more women to play chess?

HimalayanSaltLampLicker

This forum should just be about me

David
DelightfulLiberty wrote:

How does having a female only title encourage more women to play within a sexist sub-culture?

And is it necessary that this title is easier to obtain than unisex titles?

It means that more of them are recognised and can serve as role models for what can be achieved. It's an achievement that more of them can aspire to, as opposed to only having Judit Polgar. It's a recognition that women need support from the leading organisation of the game.

What are your thoughts on the women's points about the power dynamics in chess? Or about their experience of abuse in chess related contexts? The YouTube video has timestamps where you can jump to the relevant sections, but I highly recommend listening to the whole conversation rather than jumping to stuff possibly out of context.

DelightfulLiberty
HongDaHee wrote:
DelightfulLiberty wrote:
HongDaHee wrote:

While it's true that woman's title are easier to get, there are significantly less woman chess players, so the titles were meant to be a way to encourage more woman to play chess

Also other than the woman's titles, woman can also get equal title to man (if they fit the norms)

How does it encourage more women to play chess?

Having womans title means that woman players are getting recognized thus inspiring more and more female players to start playing chess

So because women aren't getting the already existing titles in large enough numbers to encourage more women into the game, they have created a title which is easier to get and which only women can get, so as to create more titled women and this should, in theory, encourage more women into the game. Have I understood that correctly?