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Do you believe in Freedom of speak?

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Avatar of MuhammadAreez10
MuhammadAreez10
May 30, 2017
0
#21

Just to put it out there, I am all in favour of complete freedom of speech (and thought).

Avatar of gingerninja2003
gingerninja2003
May 30, 2017
0
#22

the reason i'm so against hate speech is because countries in Europe were effected much more by Hitler's regime than other countries. the reason Hitler was allowed into power was that the times were very racist and although people didn't vote for him because of his beliefs but because he claimed he would build Germany back up but even so he spoke against the Jews before he was elected and people didn't care. by inserting hate crime into the mix if someone got wanted to get into power today and said things like that they'd would never get into power (they may not be prosecuted but people won't like the thing this person would've said). in America although if someone said kill the Jews they wouldn't get into power but they can get away with saying and doing offensive things. Trump is a perfect example he banned people from certain countries from getting to the USA, xenophobia like that was supported by some people when that clearly wasn't the answer.

another thing is that hate like this de-humanises people. that's why Hitlers army was able to kill so many people. they weren't killing Dave Rodgers part of a family of 5 with a wife and 3 kids two boys and a girl they were killing a label 8979.

Avatar of ChumpDavis123
ChumpDavis123
May 30, 2017
0
#23

We are going down. America! America! May God rest us in pieces.

Avatar of gingerninja2003
gingerninja2003
May 30, 2017
0
#24
BobbyTalparov wrote:
gingerninja2003 wrote:

the reason i'm so against hate speech is because countries in Europe were effected much more by Hitler's regime than other countries. the reason Hitler was allowed into power was that the times were very racist and although people didn't vote for him because of his beliefs but because he claimed he would build Germany back up but even so he spoke against the Jews before he was elected and people didn't care. by inserting hate crime into the mix if someone got wanted to get into power today and said things like that they'd would never get into power (they may not be prosecuted but people won't like the thing this person would've said). in America although if someone said kill the Jews they wouldn't get into power but they can get away with saying and doing offensive things. Trump is a perfect example he banned people from certain countries from getting to the USA, xenophobia like that was supported by some people when that clearly wasn't the answer.

another thing is that hate like this de-humanises people. that's why Hitlers army was able to kill so many people. they weren't killing Dave Rodgers part of a family of 5 with a wife and 3 kids two boys and a girl they were killing a label 8979.

What Hitler and the Nazis said did not have any effect on Europe; what they did had a massive impact.

 

There is a saying kids are taught when they are growing up, but it seems some people forget it as they get older:  "Sticks and stones may brake my bones, but words can never hurt me."

what they said did do something. do you think the Nazis would've killed 6 million Jews if Hitler didn't say a word.

Avatar of ChumpDavis123
ChumpDavis123
May 30, 2017
0
#25

gingerninja2003 wrote:

BobbyTalparov wrote:
gingerninja2003 wrote:

the reason i'm so against hate speech is because countries in Europe were effected much more by Hitler's regime than other countries. the reason Hitler was allowed into power was that the times were very racist and although people didn't vote for him because of his beliefs but because he claimed he would build Germany back up but even so he spoke against the Jews before he was elected and people didn't care. by inserting hate crime into the mix if someone got wanted to get into power today and said things like that they'd would never get into power (they may not be prosecuted but people won't like the thing this person would've said). in America although if someone said kill the Jews they wouldn't get into power but they can get away with saying and doing offensive things. Trump is a perfect example he banned people from certain countries from getting to the USA, xenophobia like that was supported by some people when that clearly wasn't the answer.

another thing is that hate like this de-humanises people. that's why Hitlers army was able to kill so many people. they weren't killing Dave Rodgers part of a family of 5 with a wife and 3 kids two boys and a girl they were killing a label 8979.

What Hitler and the Nazis said did not have any effect on Europe; what they did had a massive impact.

 

There is a saying kids are taught when they are growing up, but it seems some people forget it as they get older:  "Sticks and stones may brake my bones, but words can never hurt me."

what they said did do something. do you think the Nazis would've killed 6 million Jews if Hitler didn't say a word.

I do, but that's not the point. Hitler was a bad person. Trump didn't kill millions of people. Maybe he's not a good person, but we didn't have much of a choice in the election. It was either him or Hillary.

Avatar of gingerninja2003
gingerninja2003
May 30, 2017
0
#26
ChumpDavis123 wrote:
gingerninja2003 wrote:
BobbyTalparov wrote:
gingerninja2003 wrote:

the reason i'm so against hate speech is because countries in Europe were effected much more by Hitler's regime than other countries. the reason Hitler was allowed into power was that the times were very racist and although people didn't vote for him because of his beliefs but because he claimed he would build Germany back up but even so he spoke against the Jews before he was elected and people didn't care. by inserting hate crime into the mix if someone got wanted to get into power today and said things like that they'd would never get into power (they may not be prosecuted but people won't like the thing this person would've said). in America although if someone said kill the Jews they wouldn't get into power but they can get away with saying and doing offensive things. Trump is a perfect example he banned people from certain countries from getting to the USA, xenophobia like that was supported by some people when that clearly wasn't the answer.

another thing is that hate like this de-humanises people. that's why Hitlers army was able to kill so many people. they weren't killing Dave Rodgers part of a family of 5 with a wife and 3 kids two boys and a girl they were killing a label 8979.

What Hitler and the Nazis said did not have any effect on Europe; what they did had a massive impact.

 

There is a saying kids are taught when they are growing up, but it seems some people forget it as they get older:  "Sticks and stones may brake my bones, but words can never hurt me."

what they said did do something. do you think the Nazis would've killed 6 million Jews if Hitler didn't say a word.

I do, but that's not the point. Hitler was a bad person. Trump didn't kill millions of people. Maybe he's not a good person, but we didn't have much of a choice in the election. It was either him or Hillary.

do you think it's ok to be xenophobic? 

just wondering why did your country have literally the two worst people out of the entire list to be in the final?

Avatar of ChumpDavis123
ChumpDavis123
May 30, 2017
0
#27

gingerninja2003 wrote:

ChumpDavis123 wrote:
gingerninja2003 wrote:
BobbyTalparov wrote:
gingerninja2003 wrote:

the reason i'm so against hate speech is because countries in Europe were effected much more by Hitler's regime than other countries. the reason Hitler was allowed into power was that the times were very racist and although people didn't vote for him because of his beliefs but because he claimed he would build Germany back up but even so he spoke against the Jews before he was elected and people didn't care. by inserting hate crime into the mix if someone got wanted to get into power today and said things like that they'd would never get into power (they may not be prosecuted but people won't like the thing this person would've said). in America although if someone said kill the Jews they wouldn't get into power but they can get away with saying and doing offensive things. Trump is a perfect example he banned people from certain countries from getting to the USA, xenophobia like that was supported by some people when that clearly wasn't the answer.

another thing is that hate like this de-humanises people. that's why Hitlers army was able to kill so many people. they weren't killing Dave Rodgers part of a family of 5 with a wife and 3 kids two boys and a girl they were killing a label 8979.

What Hitler and the Nazis said did not have any effect on Europe; what they did had a massive impact.

 

There is a saying kids are taught when they are growing up, but it seems some people forget it as they get older:  "Sticks and stones may brake my bones, but words can never hurt me."

what they said did do something. do you think the Nazis would've killed 6 million Jews if Hitler didn't say a word.

I do, but that's not the point. Hitler was a bad person. Trump didn't kill millions of people. Maybe he's not a good person, but we didn't have much of a choice in the election. It was either him or Hillary.

do you think it's ok to be xenophobic? 

just wondering why did your country have literally the two worst people out of the entire list to be in the final?

It's called "identity politics". It doesn't matter how good they are, just as long as they're on your team. Also, Trump wasn't the worst candidate. There were other Republicans who ran for president who were easily worse.

Avatar of gingerninja2003
gingerninja2003
May 30, 2017
0
#28
ChumpDavis123 wrote:
 

I do, but that's not the point. Hitler was a bad person. Trump didn't kill millions of people. Maybe he's not a good person, but we didn't have much of a choice in the election. It was either him or Hillary.

do you think it's ok to be xenophobic? 

just wondering why did your country have literally the two worst people out of the entire list to be in the final?

It's called "identity politics". It doesn't matter how good they are, just as long as they're on your team. Also, Trump wasn't the worst candidate. There were other Republicans who ran for president who were easily worse.

America still didn't vote the best one in to be in the final. what about Hilary i don't know why she got into the final either.

Avatar of gingerninja2003
gingerninja2003
May 30, 2017
0
#29
BobbyTalparov wrote:
gingerninja2003 wrote:

what they said did do something. do you think the Nazis would've killed 6 million Jews if Hitler didn't say a word.

If you think what he said is what killed millions, you have a drastic misunderstanding of world history in addition to a misunderstanding of US politics, and your complete lack of understanding of freedom of speech.

 

I would suggest reading up on some philosophy (Voltaire, Ben Franklin, and Harriet Beecher Stowe would help with freedom of speech), in addition to world history (in this case, specifically regarding European history from 1900-1945).

 

using that logic Hitler was innocent. he ordered the invasion of Poland, he ordered the execution of six million Jews. all these are words but resulted in a lot of death.

Avatar of gingerninja2003
gingerninja2003
May 30, 2017
0
#30
BobbyTalparov wrote:
gingerninja2003 wrote:

using that logic Hitler was innocent. he ordered the invasion of Poland, he ordered the execution of six million Jews. all these are words but resulted in a lot of death.

Those are actions, not words.

 

To bring this into a chess analogy:  

 

Moves you are considering playing are "words".  Your thoughts state that you want to do X or Y, but you haven't actually done them yet.  You may even think that those moves are good, but again, you haven't played them yet so you may not see the refutation to them.

 

Moves you actually play are "actions".  Once they have manifest themselves, you may have committed a brilliant move, or a gross blunder.

 

You are free to think about any move you want.  It is only when you act on those thoughts by making a move that the truth will be revealed.

this confuses things. speaking is an action therefore hate speech is an action and so is free speech, this has basically discarded a lot of the debate.

Avatar of gingerninja2003
gingerninja2003
May 30, 2017
0
#31
BobbyTalparov wrote:
gingerninja2003 wrote:

this confuses things. speaking is an action therefore hate speech is an action and so is free speech, this has basically discarded a lot of the debate.

I will simplify it even more for you:  You only support "free speech" you agree with, and thus, do not support free speech at all!  QED

no i don't if anyone say's anything against anyone because of their: race, gender, religion, disability, hair colour, country or political beliefs that's hate speech. disagreeing with someone i'm fine with. 

Avatar of gingerninja2003
gingerninja2003
May 30, 2017
0
#32
BobbyTalparov wrote:
gingerninja2003 wrote:

no i don't if anyone say's anything against anyone because of their: race, gender, religion, disability, hair colour, country or political beliefs that's hate speech. disagreeing with someone i'm fine with. 

Thank you for demonstrating what I just said

In short, you disagree with any sort of stereotypes or ill-informed speech regarding various topics, so you have labelled such speech "hate speech".  Since you do not support "hate speech", you attempt to claim that you are fine with "free speech" because, obviously, those other things no one else would say ...

The contradiction is staring you right in the face, yet you are too close to see it.

ill-informed speech regarding topics i didn't say was hate speech. for example if someone said 'don't vote for Trump because he has bad hair' is not hate speech it's ill-informed and in this case just plain stupid. stereotypes regardless of wherever i agree with it or not should be hate speech. the reason Hitler was able to kill so many Jews was because he attached the stereotype to Jews that they were responsible for Germany losing the first world war therefore they were de-humanised and were easily killed without guilt. 

Avatar of gingerninja2003
gingerninja2003
May 30, 2017
0
#33
BobbyTalparov wrote:

You continue to spout ill-conceived nonsense.  Suffice it to say, you can claim you support free speech all you want; as soon as you add , "but ..." to the sentence, you demonstrate you do not.

unless i'm blind my previous three comments haven't used the word but once. the most recent time i did use but was on if Hitlers words or actions caused the death of 6 million Jews not free speech. any other comment you want me to re-write without using the word but i'll be happy to do so however this is probably unnecessary but will do so any way.  

Avatar of ChumpDavis123
ChumpDavis123
May 30, 2017
0
#34

Big egos, little world

Avatar of ChumpDavis123
ChumpDavis123
May 30, 2017
0
#35

Nobody "truly" believes in free speech. Not Republicans, not Democrats, nobody.

Avatar of gingerninja2003
gingerninja2003
May 30, 2017
0
#36

do you think at a certain time we will stop posting on this thread because your not going to change my mind and i'm not going to change your mind?

Avatar of ChumpDavis123
ChumpDavis123
May 30, 2017
0
#37

Let us make a philosophical argument than a strawman one.

Avatar of ANOK1
ANOK1
May 30, 2017
0
#38

My government is implicated in the heinous arming of Isis , it trades with a nation that buys oil from Isis held oilfields ,

my government insist they are fighting terrorism yet still enter trade deals with a know terrorist money source

my government is due to stand in an election , if it wins it will implement draconian measures on freedom of speech on the internet , i wonder why

Avatar of chesster3145
chesster3145
May 30, 2017
0
#39

Free speech means that you have a right to say anything you want without legal ramifications. However, it doesn't mean that you can say whatever you want. Free speech means that it is within the rights of the rest of society to throw you under the bus if you say something hateful and/or ignorant.

Avatar of MuhammadAreez10
MuhammadAreez10
May 31, 2017
0
#40

chesster3145 wrote:

Free speech means that you have a right to say anything you want without legal ramifications. However, it doesn't mean that you can say whatever you want. Free speech means that it is within the rights of the rest of society to throw you under the bus if you say something hateful and/or ignorant.

I want to understand that why can't hate speech be tolerated? People will always get offended on the smallest of things.