Do you know what I hate? (part 2)

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Avatar of AdorableMogwai

Do you know what I hate? Opposite color bishop endgames. It's annoying how someone can play worse during the actual game, and be pawns down in the endgame, but just by virtue of there being opposite bishops they can draw.

Most of the time they don't plan it that way either.

There should be a rule in chess where if there are only opposite color bishops and pawns left, the person with the most pawns automatically wins.

Avatar of waffllemaster

If you understand opposite bishops are drawish, then when you have an advantage be sure to keep that in mind and not trade into a drawn ending.

Also, if you or your opponent chooses to go to sleep in any ending just assuming the draw will play itself, it's a great way to lose against a knowledgeable player who keeps on playing.



Avatar of ViktorHNielsen

I believe Karpov is the strongest opposite bishop endgame player. Study his wins (and draws in worse positions) and you will improve in this endgame. I also just drew a better endgame in a correspondance game because my opponent knew that the opposite bishop endgame was a draw.

Avatar of waffllemaster

It's on my endgame to do list actually Smile  I should get to it about mid August.

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie

It isn't an auto-draw that people think it is.  There are principles behind the opposite colored bishop endgame, namely to either fix your pawns on the same color as the opposing bishop (only if he can't plausibly penetrate your position and scoop them up) or fix them on the opposite color so he can't get them.  Those are only two (seemingly contradictory) pieces of advice I've heard.  Also the goal is to limit the opposing side's activity, this means subtle nuances with the king. 

 

The principles I discussed were followed in the above Karpov game and I learned from a Smirnov course. 

Avatar of SmyslovFan

Chess may not be the game for you. Consider the following puzzle:

Avatar of Doggy_Style

Opposite coloured Bishops can be very pleasant for the side with the initiative, if you keep a set of Rooks on. Wink

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie
SmyslovFan wrote:

Chess may not be the game for you. Consider the following puzzle:

 

My move is offer a draw because two knights only checkmate if the other side is willing, and the pawns will clearly be taken eventually (black's victory hopes were long snuffed out by then). 

Avatar of ChessvsAliens
[COMMENT DELETED]
Avatar of SmyslovFan
ScorpionPackAttack wrote:
SmyslovFan wrote:

Chess may not be the game for you. Consider the following puzzle:

 

My move is offer a draw because two knights only checkmate if the other side is willing, and the pawns will clearly be taken eventually (black's victory hopes were long snuffed out by then). 

You would have thrown away the win.

Avatar of ChessvsAliens

the win is to stalemate the opposite king and then to let the pawn do the running around , then mate.

Avatar of ChessvsAliens

the advantage in the final position is + 0.5 so i think only if black makes a mistake , white can win, according to rybka

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie

It looks more like a puzzle position than a practical one anyway.  Reuben Fine in Basic Chess Endgames stated himself that two knights vs. king draw unless the other side wants to be mated, and since people prefer draws to losses...

 

Though yeah almost forgot about the stalemate + let them move a pawn tactic, which was also in a position from that very book where knight and king push the king to the other side and eventually mate the king, though there were more pawns on the board there. 

Avatar of MrMars

these rants are stupid

Avatar of AdorableMogwai

Thanks for all the interesting comments everyone. I hadn't seen that game of Karpov's and didn't know he was considered the master of opposite colored bishops endgames.

Very nice puzzle as well, though of course this puzzle is an exception to the rule.

Also, as much as I hate feeding the trolls, let me just comment on a particular insult I see thrown around in these forums a lot the "chess isn't the game for you, try (insert children's game here) instead"

The people who say things like this are not only condescending but are negatively impacting the game of chess. I don't know about you, but I want chess to get more popular and I'd like to see more people taking interest in it. It seems like some people want the opposite so they go around telling others not to play chess. And who are you anyway to tell someone else they shouldn't play chess? Do you think you're an expert because of your inflated chess.com rating that's 400 points higher than what you'd be OTB. Try playing on lichess if you think you're an expert and see what your real rating is.

Avatar of SmyslovFan
AdorableMogwai wrote:

...

Also, as much as I hate feeding the trolls, let me just comment on a particular insult I see thrown around in these forums a lot the "chess isn't the game for you, try (insert children's game here) instead"

The people who say things like this are not only condescending but are negatively impacting the game of chess. I don't know about you, but I want chess to get more popular and I'd like to see more people taking interest in it. It seems like some people want the opposite so they go around telling others not to play chess. And who are you anyway to tell someone else they shouldn't play chess? Do you think you're an expert because of your inflated chess.com rating that's 400 points higher than what you'd be OTB. Try playing on lichess if you think you're an expert and see what your real rating is.

I realise your comment may not be directed at me, but since I was the one who said that chess may not be the game for you, I'll explain what I meant. My puzzle was meant as an extreme example of showing that material advantages are often not enough to win in chess, even in the endgame. 

The problem of winning an opposite-colored Bishop endgame is one of the reasons I love chess. Strong players know all sorts of weird endgames that are drawn despite large material imbalances. If you dislike that fact, then chess may not be the game for you. 

I did not recommend any inferior game for you to pick up, someone else did. I didn't recommend another game for you to play because all other board/card/online games are inferior to chess!

Avatar of AndyClifton
SmyslovFan wrote:
I didn't recommend another game for you to play because all other board/card/online games are inferior to chess!

Avatar of sipawitz

Everybody calm down

Avatar of AndyClifton

Yes, cease this hooliganism!

Avatar of AdorableMogwai

It wasn't directed at you so much SmyslovFan, and I did appreciate the puzzle.

Though I disagree that material advantages are "often" not enough to win in the endgame. I think instead of often, it's occasionally, like on those occasions when they have opposite colored bishops.

And yes strong players may "know all sorts of weird endgames that are drawn despite large material advantages." But you don't have to be a strong player to get a draw in an opposite colored bishop endgame. That's not a "weird endgame" it's a common and mundane one. You can be an average player, or even a weak player as I do think it's fairly easy to draw in that scenario. And it really sucks when you outplay your opponent in the middlegame and capture pawns and then it goes into an opposite colored bishop endgame and they're just like "hurr hurr I'm going to make it so neither of us can do anything because I played bad and can't win."