does luck exist in chess

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bobbyDK

this has probably been asked before but luck exist in the game.

is it luck that :

  • your opponent makes a blunder?
  • your opponent chooses an opening line that you are booked up in case you only know 2 opening well?

the list could go on.

I know why they say luck doesn't exist. But I think in some cases it does.

players above 1900 may not experience luck in game.

but I think below 1900 luck exist.

if a players blunders in a game and you win. some may say you weren't lucky the opponent was just bad to blunder but the same player may not make such a huge blunder in other games in a tournament.

szammie

I wouldn't say "luck", but "chance", as n: An opponent my make a blunder, but it is up 2 u, 2 recognize, then take advantage of it (the blunder).  If u don't, then it is the reciprocation, 2 that, the opponent, who blundered, gets a "chance" (lucky) 2 recover from their blunder.  That's why I say, not "luck", but "chance"; will u answer when opportunity knocks. Wink

SZ.

Loomis

It's luck when your opponent's GPS sends him to the next town over and he forfeits for being late. :-)

bobbyDK
Loomis wrote:

It's luck when your opponent's GPS sends him to the next town over and he forfeits for being late. :-)


 or if the opponent cellphone makes a noise. even on move 1.  the player looses.

note: I think the cellphone rules is to strict it should be a penalty of 10 minutes.

J_Piper
bobbyDK wrote:
Loomis wrote:

It's luck when your opponent's GPS sends him to the next town over and he forfeits for being late. :-)


 or if the opponent cellphone makes a noise. even on move 1.  the player looses.

note: I think the cellphone rules is to strict it should be a penalty of 10 minutes.


 Just curious, what time allotment is usually given at a standard tourney?

rockpeter

I agree that it's chance resulting from a blunder.  However, If you make a mouse slip that would cost you and the player doesn't notice, then I would call that lucky.  Although he basically blundered again Surprised

bobbyDK
socket2me wrote:
bobbyDK wrote:
Loomis wrote:

It's luck when your opponent's GPS sends him to the next town over and he forfeits for being late. :-)


 or if the opponent cellphone makes a noise. even on move 1.  the player looses.

note: I think the cellphone rules is to strict it should be a penalty of 10 minutes.


 Just curious, what time allotment is usually given at a standard tourney?


At a standard tournament 2 hours for each players.

some tournament I participate in you get 1 hour or halve an hour each after the first 40 moves.

MAttos_12
bobbyDK wrote:

this has probably been asked before but luck exist in the game.

is it luck that :

your opponent makes a blunder? your opponent chooses an opening line that you are booked up in case you only know 2 opening well?

the list could go on.

I know why they say luck doesn't exist. But I think in some cases it does.

players above 1900 may not experience luck in game.

but I think below 1900 luck exist.

if a players blunders in a game and you win. some may say you weren't lucky the opponent was just bad to blunder but the same player may not make such a huge blunder in other games in a tournament.


I suppose we might want to ask what luck if first!

 

I presume that, by luck we mean that a result is achieved that was better than the inteneded/predicted result?  Given the complexity of chess, no one knows every connotation. So a degree of 'estimating' always comes in.

Often I play a combination, and there are moves I haven't seen, which could be played to stop the tactics, but don't work for reasons I also, didn't see.  I see that as luck.

 

In a simular way sometimes people play a move for totally differnt reasons, like, a queen move to protect a pawn, and the result is that they protect against a mate in 5 they hadn't seen.  I see this as luck.

 

As the OP points out, if you are an 1800 player, playing against a 2200 player, and win because the 2200 player really hates the slav, and not knowning this you play the slav and win.  I'd say this is also lucky. 

MAttos_12
bobbyDK wrote:

this has probably been asked before but luck exist in the game.

is it luck that :

your opponent makes a blunder? your opponent chooses an opening line that you are booked up in case you only know 2 opening well?

the list could go on.

I know why they say luck doesn't exist. But I think in some cases it does.

players above 1900 may not experience luck in game.

but I think below 1900 luck exist.

if a players blunders in a game and you win. some may say you weren't lucky the opponent was just bad to blunder but the same player may not make such a huge blunder in other games in a tournament.


Also, GMs blunder, and Gms make mistakes, and are lucky.   Less so perhaps.

MAttos_12
bobbyDK wrote:
socket2me wrote:
bobbyDK wrote:
Loomis wrote:

It's luck when your opponent's GPS sends him to the next town over and he forfeits for being late. :-)


 or if the opponent cellphone makes a noise. even on move 1.  the player looses.

note: I think the cellphone rules is to strict it should be a penalty of 10 minutes.


 Just curious, what time allotment is usually given at a standard tourney?


At a standard tournament 2 hours for each players.

some tournament I participate in you get 1 hour or halve an hour each after the first 40 moves.


My understanging in Britain is that 1:30 is the shortest form of 'long' game.  Our evening matches tended to be 36moves in 1:15 and 15 to finnish.

Weekend tourniments were often 2 hours each, and the British is 40 in 2, 20 in 1, and 30 to Finish. 

kco

I find it hard to believe that chess is a game of 'luck', we're not using dices, the game is open to both players is not being conceal. Chess is really a skilled game. 

Wou_Rem

I think that you are using a strange definition of luck.
From your point of view, If I shoot you in the face your unlucky instead of me being a murderer.

There is no luck what so ever between the rules of chess. The only "luck" you can have are things that happen outside the chess game that can influence it. For isntande if a bystander trips and throws coffee at your opponent then that might disturb his concentration.

boymaster

The only luck in chess I know is time lag.

That means ONLINE.

kco

do you rely upon the opponent to make mistakes ? then you are not playing chess, this whole things absurd about 'luck',  sorry  I just don't buy it.

DonkeyShark

A player's rating is designed to eliminate short term "luck".  If someone happens to get "lucky" in that they find themselves having 4 straight opponents in a tournament forfeit for one reason or another, their rating may show a temporary improvement, but it will reflect their true ability after playing some more games. If you are rated at 2000, you are awarded fewer points for beating a 2100 player than you are if you were rated 1800.  You also lose more points when you lose to a 1700 player than you would if you were 1800.  So in the long term (or even just the not very short term) there is no "luck" in a player's rating.  Certainly not if we are calculating it in terms of statistical significance and standard deviations.

kco

not tracking this, I don't like debate. Have fun.

Conquistador

There may be luck, but is there intelligence?

Chess_Lover11

Luck plays an important factor in almost everything! So for sure luck do exist in chess.

WestofHollywood

yes it does. Examples:

1. swiss system pairings - you can good ones or not so good ones

2. your opponent just had a fight with his spouse, has a headache, stomach ache, etc.

3. you just spent hours studying a specific opening variation, know it inside and out, and the next day your opponent plays right into it. (of course your hard work is a factor too!)

Of course good players are always lucky!

SchachMatt

"in my experience there's no such thing as luck" - Obi Wan Kenobi