It's hard to imagine a white player giving black the chance to stack his pieces on the open files without being disrupted. As said, white will create distractions on the a2-g8 diagonal, that aren't necessarily scary but may force black to react for a move or two. I don't think it's worth giving up the bishop pair just for the square on e5 -- a knight by itself won't be able to attack anything.
Does this position favor White or Black?
Sort:
I know the Game Explorer isn't the Holy Grail, but I just found that of the 4 games in the database with this position, White won in all 4.
Ref.: http://www.chess.com/explorer/index.html?id=5966634&ply=14&black=0.
Elubas wrote:
It's hard to imagine a white player giving black the chance to stack his pieces on the open files without being disrupted. As said, white will create distractions on the a2-g8 diagonal, that aren't necessarily scary but may force black to react for a move or two. I don't think it's worth giving up the bishop pair just for the square on e5 -- a knight by itself won't be able to attack anything.
Distractions i assume you mean (Bc4) on your magic diagonal after ...Na5 followed by... Nxb followed by... O-O damn is that blacks king rook on that open file. Give the guy a fighting chance try to establish something anything in the center at least !! 
cigoL wrote:
I know the Game Explorer isn't the Holy Grail, but I just found that of the 4 games in the database with this position, White won in all 4.
Ref.: http://www.chess.com/explorer/index.html?id=5966634&ply=14&black=0.
That is why we call them MASTERS !!
Haha! So masters always play with the White pieces? I didn't know that. 
cigoL wrote:
Haha! So masters always play with the White pieces? I didn't know that.
You asked a question you got an opinion what are you a troll ? 
mateologist wrote:
cigoL wrote:
Haha! So masters always play with the White pieces? I didn't know that.
You asked a question you got an opinion what are you a troll ?
?
wow amazing...why black is resign...can u explain,why...
i need to know...
cigoL wrote:Trying to understand how to evaluate a position, I've been starring at this one for quite some time. Who does it favor? Any thoughts?
Black almost win here (I love it ). 6.Qe2? is illogical
Pay attention to the endgame when playing this position (hint: pawn structure and the related maneuverability in the endgame).
1) Black has pawn minority on the Kingside, thus he will do short castling (0-0)
2) White needs to keep an eye on the disturbing e4-pawn, so will also do short castling. Besides, no tempo for 0-0-0 where the Queenside is really in disadvantage.
3) No-one should give up the double Bishop.
4) The main feature of this position is the e4-pawn that hinder White's development. This wil be the main vehicle for Black to win the endgame. The only way White can take it down is by f3, but look at the position, White is nowhere from having advantage from doing it or ready for f3.
5) Black's Bishops are stronger and Black dominate the Kingside, the only place White will want to fight at.
EDIT: Point #4 is wrong. f3 is not the only way White can take the e4-pawn down. It can be taken down sooner, so Black cannot take advantage from this pawn.
Oct 9, 2011
0
#31
- 8. Bg5 h6 9. Bh4 g5 10. Bg3 Bxg3 11. hxg3 g4 -+ after Nxd4
- 8. 0-0 (or Nc3 - Nbd2 a few moves in is better) Qe7 -+ after Nxd4
- 8. Ng5 += see #7 and I agree with Elubas re: dubious knight sac
- 8. c3 += see below
I believe whoever moves is ahead but seeing as this is extended opening theory (obviously White to move) a slight advantage for White after 8. c3 or Ng5 which transposes after Qe7 anyway, although I'd probably play c3 first, hoping for 8. c3 h6? 9. 0-0 Qe7 10. Nh5
lol, Yusuf, you've got someone who disagrees with you: Houdini! Houdini believes the game to be dead even, and it thinks that 6 Qe2 is the best move.
Looks like you need to teach houdini a lesson!
Or perhaps it just doesn't understand the depth of your chess intellect
But in all seriousness, it's not that you make bad points. The problem here though is that we are all talking about the position very abstractly: We are listing features for white and black, possible goals for white and black, but are having trouble answering this question: whose plan will actually work? We know black wants to keep his e4 pawn and white wants to get rid of it, but whose plan will work? It's about turning the ideas you have into actuality, and sometimes you can, while in others, dynamic play keeps you from achieving your worthy ideas.
If I was biased for white I could make a couple nice paragraphs listing everything he had; likewise, for black, it's easy to list things like kingside majorities, and speculate that they will be good. But it's hard to actually prove that white will be unable to do anything before black turns that potential into a real threat.
Good point, Elubas. This human tendency to looking at things from a certain point of way (a bias), is indeed problematic. Many interesting studies have been made about it. If we could rid ourselves of this "feature" we could very well gain some hundred rating points instantly. A fascinating thought, actually! 
So, now the question is: how do we do that? Maybe we can't.
cigoL wrote:
Trying to understand how to evaluate a position, I've been starring at this one for quite some time. Who does it favor? Any thoughts?
Thanks!
I would say white is better, because:
- Black's d pawn is blocked
- White will have safer castle
This wasn't in a game of yours, was it?
cigoL wrote:
Good point, Elubas. This human tendency to looking at things from a certain point of way (a bias), is indeed problematic. Many interesting studies have been made about it. If we could rid ourselves of this "feature" we could very well gain some hundred rating points instantly. A fascinating thought, actually!
So, now the question is: how do we do that? Maybe we can't.
It's very difficult! It's what makes chess evaluation so tough. I would say experience counts: playing in positions like this will help you have a much better idea of what will happen compared to trying to speculate whose advantages will rule from a position you have never seen before.
Elubas wrote:lol, Yusuf, you've got someone who disagrees with you: Houdini! Houdini believes the game to be dead even, and it thinks that 6 Qe2 is the best move.
Looks like you need to teach houdini a lesson!
Or perhaps it just doesn't understand the depth of your chess intellect
Hehehe of course. I imagine a perfect chess engine. She doesn't give real numbers such as +0.04 or +0.56. All she knows is 0 (for draw) and # (for mate). What I'm trying to say is, no matter how much advantage we have, sometimes it is impossible to force a win with best play. That's why I used the word almost (as in "Black almost win here") to prepare for this kind of comment like yours hehe.
Elubas wrote:
But in all seriousness, it's not that you make bad points. The problem here though is that we are all talking about the position very abstractly: We are listing features for white and black, possible goals for white and black, but are having trouble answering this question: whose plan will actually work?
Having a clear plan is half towards win Black has the initiative. It will be easier to understand this position if we know how to play for the endgame.
Elubas wrote:
We know black wants to keep his e4 pawn and white wants to get rid of it, but whose plan will work?
Of course White will be able to get rid of the e4-pawn easily. Holding it is not really a plan for Black. This e4-pawn is similar like the d6-pawn in the Sicilian. A temporary pain in the a$$, that allows the opponent to make worthy development.
Elubas wrote:
If I was biased for white I could make a couple nice paragraphs listing everything he had; likewise, for black, it's easy to list things like kingside majorities, and speculate that they will be good. But it's hard to actually prove that white will be unable to do anything before black turns that potential into a real threat.
You have to list it if you were to play White. Without it you are like playing without a clear plan or strategy.
Anyway, the real threat for White is the advantage Black has in the endgame due to space advantage created by the e4-pawn. This requires good endgame technique from Black side.
The proof of this is in the eyes of people who knows how to treat the position.
No, checkmate..., it wasn't. What makes you ask?
I came across this position as I was studying the Ruy Lopez: Schliemann Defense.
Elubas, you say Houdini considers 6. Qe2 the best move. Not having access to a computer engine like Houdini, by any chance you would kindly tell if Houdini considers 4. Qe2 to be the best best move after 3...f5, as well, in the line leading to this position (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5)? That would be really interesting for me to know!
Elubas wrote:
cigoL wrote:
Good point, Elubas. This human tendency to looking at things from a certain point of way (a bias), is indeed problematic. Many interesting studies have been made about it. If we could rid ourselves of this "feature" we could very well gain some hundred rating points instantly. A fascinating thought, actually!
So, now the question is: how do we do that? Maybe we can't.
It's very difficult! It's what makes chess evaluation so tough. I would say experience counts: playing in positions like this will help you have a much better idea of what will happen compared to trying to speculate whose advantages will rule from a position you have never seen before.
To me it is not about speculation. This is how I train myself. To be honest, this is one of the important method that I use to train myself to be a supposedly GM-level chess player. I want to be able to recognize positions/patterns. I want to be able to see patterns or key feature in a position. I want to know who wins and who loses in a certain random position, and of course how to win the position, such as where my King should go, to the right or to the left
So, mateo..., if you were to bet on who would win, in a game between masters, you wound bet on Black?
Even with the variation i posted where white posts his knight on the powerful e5 square i still think black rules. Because i had to give black the "bishop pair " in an OPEN position that is not good for white, and the F file is still open not to mention "freeing" blacks queen bishop. I think it would be difficult to hold whites position be you master or not.