"Kramnik is the best endgame player"
It is often said that Kramnik is better in the endgames than Carlsen, but I don't think it's true.
Fischer or Carlsen?
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Sep 8, 2015
0
#123
Fischer's distrust of engine would have put him at a disadvantage compared to today's players. He and Anand once analysed together. They reached a position where Anand pointed out that computer had shown this as winning. Fischer didn't believe it and went on to analyse the position in depth.
We're talking about the historical Fischer, not some hypothetical time-travelling Fischer. Fischer was great. In 1972, he was the greatest ever. Forty years later, he still ranks as one of the all-time greats, at 16th. That's an incredible accomplishment. But it's not enough for his more rabid fans.
Has anyone bothered to see where Mark Spitz ranks among the all-time best swimmers? His best times couldn't qualify for the 2012 Olympics. The first time anyone broke 10.0 in the 100 meters dash was Jim Hines in 1968. Jim Ryun's mile record of 3:51.1 which was still the record in 1972, has been smashed repeatedly. The 1500m record was 3:33. Today, it's 3:26.00.
And so on.
But somehow, people seem to think Fischer stands outside of time.
Fischer's greatness is beyond doubt. But forty years have passed since he forfeit his title. Chess has improved quite a bit since then.
Sep 8, 2015
0
#124
PositionalChessMC wrote:
@SmyslovFan, If you think Bxh2 was okay, then you need to study endgames, I read in a book that it is one of the biggest blunders in world championship chess along with chigorin lost to some steinz, where he forgot about the pawn on h2 and got mated, but two rooks on 7th rank,
In case of fischer even if Bxh2 was okay then that h5, h4 was clearly bad. Instead he needed to bring his king in the game.
I never said Bxh2 was ok. I said it's not losing. I refer you to analysis by Jonathan Speelman if you're really curious.
I used to think that Kramnik was better in the endgames than Carlsen, but then Carlsen beat him in a couple of pretty even endgames. Right now, Carlsen's probably the best endgame player in the world. He still has weaknesses. I think he's relatively weak in purely technical single-rook endgames. He lost a few games, including one to Ivanchuk, that I expected him to hold.
btickler wrote:
ChastityMoon wrote:
I never hear it discussed when this subject is brought up but...
I recall reading at the time that in an interview Fischer gave he admitted to being unsettled by the fact that he never experienced Spassky's ego being crushed and he was made very uncomfortable by the fact that even though he was losing the match Spassky's play was becoming stronger in the waning games of the match.
Because of that admission he made it has never left my mind that Fischer was primarily motivated by fear in his avoidance of Karpov.
You are conflating several stories and urban legends about Fischer into one anecdote. Maybe you read an overly simplified blog post ;)...
Some of it is from the WCC. The ego crushing reference is from his Dick Cavett interview/appearance. The "fear" is conjecture by speculators.
Wow! That is some drastic exaggeration on your part.
Several stories??? I heard one interview and the conjecture is mine, as I stated.
Please clarify your remarks by identifying the urban legend you refer to and one or two of the several stories I conflated.
I already did.
As I said, maybe you read a blog post or something that did the conflating for you...regardless, it is not accurate. That's the important part, in the context of this thread, anyway. Sorry if you feel maligned here.
The phrase:
Because of that admission he made it has never left my mind
...implies that you are remembering something "admitted to", not that you are speculating about Fischer's motives. I don't see where you claim credit for conjecture ;).
btickler wrote:
I already did.
As I said, maybe you read a blog post or something that did the conflating for you...regardless, it is not accurate. That's the important part, in the context of this thread, anyway. Sorry if you feel maligned here.
The phrase:
Because of that admission he made it has never left my mind
...implies that you are remembering something "admitted to", not that you are speculating about Fischer's motives. I don't see where you claim credit for conjecture ;).
That's what I thought. Just one more person who can't admit it when they overstate something and get called on it.
Do you really think there were blogs at the time when Fischer still spoke about his match with Spassky? How old are you?
ChastityMoon wrote: That's what I thought. Just one more person who can't admit it when they overstate something and get called on it.
Do you really think there were blogs at the time when Fischer still spoke about his match with Spassky? How old are you?
All I see is someone repeatedly making declarative statements without any facts. Seriously. Do you have any? Any at all...go for it. Can you even point out other interviews where Fischer said he liked crushing the egos of his opponents other than the Dick Cavett show? I am guessing there are some...it shouldn't be hard. Any effort at all, really, would suffice. Then we'd know that you are not just casting aspersions...
You saw some interview in the 70s, and you regaled us with some vague recollections thereof. Oh, no...wait...you read about an interview you never saw. One more level removed from reality.
I called you on it.
As for how old I am...I'm old enough to remember when Fischer won the title. I should remember; it was soon after I learned to play chess, and the same year I won 3rd place at a tournament where I was representing my local playground ;).
The bottom line is that your original post was not saying "I remember feeling" or "I have my own opinion"...it was saying "why does nobody remember that it was like [insert vagueness disguised as "this is the way it is" here] when this topic comes up?".
This purports to tell others that you are correct, and that they are not. I merely pointed out that you were speaking out of someplace decidedly lower than your vocal chords at the time.
There is a man in my local club who has beaten Fischer in a simultaneous display, using the sicilian dragon
I see we are in the Fischer season.
Just like the controversial season, it will not last and the same rules apply
Nope...verified by finding his name on a list of people with wins over Fischer
Also had the privelige of riding in the same car with Bobby while leaving event...took place in Virginia in mid '60s
Ah yes, the good ol'e times of the Soviet Union
He confirmed that the teenage Bobby was only interested in chess and only discussed the game in their brief time together
Sep 8, 2015
0
#135
This 60 Minutes television interview is the source of the "crush another man's ego" comment (@ 3:23)
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/1972-chess-champ-bobby-fischer-on-60-minutes/
btickler wrote:
ChastityMoon wrote: That's what I thought. Just one more person who can't admit it when they overstate something and get called on it.
Do you really think there were blogs at the time when Fischer still spoke about his match with Spassky? How old are you?
All I see is someone repeatedly making declarative statements without any facts. Seriously. Do you have any? Any at all...go for it. Can you even point out other interviews where Fischer said he liked crushing the egos of his opponents other than the Dick Cavett show? I am guessing there are some...it shouldn't be hard. Any effort at all, really, would suffice. Then we'd know that you are not just casting aspersions...
You saw some interview in the 70s, and you regaled us with some vague recollections thereof. Oh, no...wait...you read about an interview you never saw. One more level removed from reality.
I called you on it.
As for how old I am...I'm old enough to remember when Fischer won the title. I should remember; it was soon after I learned to play chess, and the same year I won 3rd place at a tournament where I was representing my local playground ;).
The bottom line is that your original post was not saying "I remember feeling" or "I have my own opinion"...it was saying "why does nobody remember that it was like [insert vagueness disguised as "this is the way it is" here] when this topic comes up?".
This purports to tell others that you are correct, and that they are not. I merely pointed out that you were speaking out of someplace decidedly lower than your vocal chords at the time.
You've certainly worked yourself into a lather. You brought up the Dick Cavett interview, not me. You probably should consult your dictionary to learn the definition of "regale". What is the relevance of you winning a kiddy chess tournament? The ego crushing aspect (probably common to a lot of chess players) isn't the important issue. The salient point was Fischer's admitting that Spassky's fortitude got to him. You can let the matter drop now because you've exposed yourself as one who doesn't do well as a debater and I'm finished with the matter.
ClemsonTiger wrote:
Nope...verified by finding his name on a list of people with wins over Fischer
How many other players?
ChastityMoon wrote:
You've certainly worked yourself into a lather. You brought up the Dick Cavett interview, not me. You probably should consult your dictionary to learn the definition of "regale". What is the relevance of you winning a kiddy chess tournament? The ego crushing aspect (probably common to a lot of chess players) isn't the important issue. The salient point was Fischer's admitting that Spassky's fortitude got to him. You can let the matter drop now because you've exposed yourself as one who doesn't do well as a debater and I'm finished with the matter.
More declarations :). Not really worth dignifying.
There's no lather involved, unless it was your first reply. I was/am responding to teach you a lesson and show the error of your ways...i.e. you ought to ponder a little more before tossing out "a friend of a friend told me once" style anecdotes when you are chiding others.
Mission accomplished. Whether you like it or not, you'll remember this exchange.
Have a nice day.
I never hear it discussed when this subject is brought up but...
I recall reading at the time that in an interview Fischer gave he admitted to being unsettled by the fact that he never experienced Spassky's ego being crushed and he was made very uncomfortable by the fact that even though he was losing the match Spassky's play was becoming stronger in the waning games of the match.
Because of that admission he made it has never left my mind that Fischer was primarily motivated by fear in his avoidance of Karpov.
You are conflating several stories and urban legends about Fischer into one anecdote. Maybe you read an overly simplified blog post ;)...
Some of it is from the WCC. The ego crushing reference is from his Dick Cavett interview/appearance. The "fear" is conjecture by speculators.