Fischer or Kasparov. Who's the best?
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I was considering saying to all the dudes who keep asking who Ernesto Boungcloud is, to look her up on wikipedia, but there is no entry for her and this forum thread is the only page indexed on google with her name. So my question is how do any of you know anything about Ernesto Boungcloud and this Boungcloud game which was mentioned on another thread. Maybe there is no GM Boungcloud or a miss-spelling or something else is going on.
I'm no where good enough at chess to give a credible opinion on who is best, but I'll go for Capablanca anyway (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Ra%C3%BAl_Capablanca). He only lost fewer than 40 serious over the board games in his career and was easily the best blitz player of his generation. He also ranks very highly on the chessmetrics list of world champions.
Feb 12, 2008
0
#44
Fischer was a much better lunatic. Kasparov is a much better politician who will never win an election.
It seems that some people have forgotten that an OPINION or preference cannot be wrong, unless it is stated as a fact. That's like saying you are wrong for having the opinion that chocolate is better than vanilla. And even quoting statistics that show chocolate sells more doesn't make that preference any more or less valid. I mean, tell a Cubs fan that their team is no good. They will agree that the statistics aren't on their side, but they will cheer that team on to the bitter end.
Now, if we are going to crunch numbers in an attempt to determine who was statistically better, then we must use identical (or as near as possible) data and data sources, don't we? I'm not even sure that IQ has anything to do with it. Do we know what Capablanca's IQ was? Morphy's? And is rating a true evaluation of chess ability/genius? I know it is one of the only statistics we have, but I think we often treat it as gospel.
Finally...what difference does it really make? Rather, who will be the NEXT great player?
I think PurpleHaze's "aceintelligence" site could figure out Capablanca's and Morphy's IQ....afterall, they have Abe Lincoln's and Hitlers. And here is their "hall of fame" IQ best! http://www.aceintelligence.com/iq_hall_of_fame.php Check out that super-smart Fifi_baby_lucy and Poshbuddy69!
PurpleHaze...if you believe every single website you read you are surely one confused individual. That site seems to detract severely from your credibility.
I am inclined to say Fischer. But probably my favorite "top" players are Larsen and Korchnoi. Korchnoi for his durability and Larsen for his annotations (his annotations are very very clear and he's not at all afraid to annotate his losses).
PurpleHaze wrote: rootworm wrote: PurpleHaze wrote: rootworm wrote: najdorf wrote: I think Kasparov is a better player.
do you have any reason behind this? let me ask you something... Has Kasparov ever defeated two opponents in back-to-back matches with perfect scores in order to play for the world championship? I think not.
I'll have to go with Kasparov too. On top of the fact that he has a higher Elo and IQ rating than Fischer; he's also the only chess player that I know of who has participated in simuls against GM teams and beat them.
Seriously, are you smoking some crack?! Where are you getting this B.S.? 1) Kasparov's rating is inflated. 2) Fischer's IQ was MUCH higher than Kasparov's. 3) Fisher was one of the first to give simuls against GMs and beat them. I think you need to do some reading before you decide to give your horribly wrong opinion. Would you like for me to give some book names you could read?
Look, if you want to debate then please do so without the immature pejoratives.
The inflation part was mentioned in my previous post, I suggest you read it. About the IQ's, I've got multiple sources and the general concensus is that Fischer's is around 180 and Kasparov's is 190. Here's just one for example: http://www.aceintelligence.com/iq_of_famous_people.php
And I've never heard of Fischer playing multiple GMs in simuls, I only know of Kasparov doing such a thing. I'm not just talking about an ordinary simul where there might be only 1 GM and the other players are rated sub-1800; I'm talking about playing a team of GMs simultaneously. So I'd appreciate if you provide a source to your statement or maybe the players/team that Fischer played against.
Ok dude, I will *TRY* to regrain from my ignorrant, immature pajoratives. Read a few books, perhaps "Bobby Fisher Goes To War", or "Bobby Fischer: A Prodigy"... both explain were Bobby goes head to head with more than 10 GM's in a simul at the age of 17. Also, you are basing your IQ information off a website that does it's own IQ ratings. Wow, you're an effing genius! So if I told you Brittney Spears wanted to have your babies, would you believe it? I'm willing to bet you would. So I will state once again, BASE YOUR KNOWLEDGE FROM REAL KNOWLEDGE! hmm... seems like common sense doesn't it?!
Meowdar wrote:
I think PurpleHaze's "aceintelligence" site could figure out Capablanca's and Morphy's IQ....afterall, they have Abe Lincoln's and Hitlers. And here is their "hall of fame" IQ best! http://www.aceintelligence.com/iq_hall_of_fame.php Check out that super-smart Fifi_baby_lucy and Poshbuddy69!
PurpleHaze...if you believe every single website you read you are surely one confused individual. That site seems to detract severely from your credibility.
I am inclined to say Fischer. But probably my favorite "top" players are Larsen and Korchnoi. Korchnoi for his durability and Larsen for his annotations (his annotations are very very clear and he's not at all afraid to annotate his losses).
If you'd of read my previous post carefully then you'd of noticed the part where I said that it was only one of the sources that shows Kasparov's IQ higher than Fischer's. When most sources come to the same conclusion - then it's most likely the truth. I just didn't want to post them because it'd look sloppy, but since you didn't like that source then here are some more:
2)http://www.aceviper.net/estimated_iq_of_famous_people.php?order=iq
3)http://onemansblog.com/2007/11/08/the-massive-list-of-genius-people-with-the-highest-iq/
Some of the IQ ratings differentiate, but all of them give Kasparov a higher rating than Fischer.
You ask how can Lincoln's IQ be on the list? That's mentioned in one of my links, it's most likely one of the estimates done by Dr. Catherine Morris Cox. And there's nothing surprising about Hitler being on the list, he was around after IQ tests were created.
Concerning their "Hall of Fame", you have to understand that it's the ratings of people that took the website's IQ test, which has absolutely nothing to do with the ratings listed for famous people. You probably don't know, but there isn't any universal IQ test that determines someones intelligence. You can find tons of easy IQ test on the net that are only there to boost peoples egos by giving them an inflated IQ rating. On the other hand there are serious IQ tests done by universities.
Rootworm, you'll have to provide more substantial evidence on Fischer winning a simul against 10 GMs at the age of 17. You give me the names of two books, expecting me to read them, without even quoting the paragraphs which backs up your statement. Not a single mention of the GMs he played nor any info on the location of the simul or date. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't convince me. I've even taken a brief moment to search the net and haven't found any info on that event.
Reb wrote: Kasparov did not dominate Karpov the way Fischer dominated Spassky. Fischers career % of 72.6 is well above Kaspys 69.4% , however, Alekhine has the top career % at 72.9% and Keres weighs in at 70.2% , which is better than all the world champions but 3 ! Fischer, Alekhine and Capablanca
True.
Read my previous post. Up until that post I am the only one to mention the fantastic player Paul keres , an Estonian. I have always maintained that Keres , Fine ,Korchnoi and Akiba Rubinstein are the greatest players never to have won the World Title. Now one can see that Paul Keres's ranks only behind top 3 world champs in career performance ratings!
Thanks Reb, for the information about Keres.--SIX
PurpleHaze wrote: Meowdar wrote:
I think PurpleHaze's "aceintelligence" site could figure out Capablanca's and Morphy's IQ....afterall, they have Abe Lincoln's and Hitlers. And here is their "hall of fame" IQ best! http://www.aceintelligence.com/iq_hall_of_fame.php Check out that super-smart Fifi_baby_lucy and Poshbuddy69!
PurpleHaze...if you believe every single website you read you are surely one confused individual. That site seems to detract severely from your credibility.
I am inclined to say Fischer. But probably my favorite "top" players are Larsen and Korchnoi. Korchnoi for his durability and Larsen for his annotations (his annotations are very very clear and he's not at all afraid to annotate his losses).
If you'd of read my previous post carefully then you'd of noticed the part where I said that it was only one of the sources that shows Kasparov's IQ higher than Fischer's. When most sources come to the same conclusion - then it's most likely the truth. I just didn't want to post them because it'd look sloppy, but since you didn't like that source then here are some more:
2)http://www.aceviper.net/estimated_iq_of_famous_people.php?order=iq
3)http://onemansblog.com/2007/11/08/the-massive-list-of-genius-people-with-the-highest-iq/
Some of the IQ ratings differentiate, but all of them give Kasparov a higher rating than Fischer.
You ask how can Lincoln's IQ be on the list? That's mentioned in one of my links, it's most likely one of the estimates done by Dr. Catherine Morris Cox. And there's nothing surprising about Hitler being on the list, he was around after IQ tests were created.
Concerning their "Hall of Fame", you have to understand that it's the ratings of people that took the website's IQ test, which has absolutely nothing to do with the ratings listed for famous people. You probably don't know, but there isn't any universal IQ test that determines someones intelligence. You can find tons of easy IQ test on the net that are only there to boost peoples egos by giving them an inflated IQ rating. On the other hand there are serious IQ tests done by universities.
Rootworm, you'll have to provide more substantial evidence on Fischer winning a simul against 10 GMs at the age of 17. You give me the names of two books, expecting me to read them, without even quoting the paragraphs which backs up your statement. Not a single mention of the GMs he played nor any info on the location of the simul or date. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't convince me. I've even taken a brief moment to search the net and haven't found any info on that event.
My , my PurpleHaze who cares about some simuls ? I and others already listed Fischer's demolition in "match play" of the top grandmasters , Tamianov, Larsen and Petrosian on the path to defeating Spassky taking the World Title.
Would you agree that -match play- is a far better indicater of playing ability than simul or tournament games are??
On another note that I mentioned previously, Fischer did not have a chessteam of Gms giving him aid and analysis as did Kasparov and Karpov.
I will go with Fischer as the best even though he himself declared
that Paul Morphy the greatest chess genius.
As to Kasparov many of his game wins were based on prepared opening surprises/variations found by his chess team of assistants along with him.
However Kasparov certainly is a chess genius. He though ranks behind Fischer ,Capablanca ,Tal and even Alekhine in my estimation.-SIX
As I've said before, read the background to the first Sp-Fsr championship match.Sp had the entire entorage of Russian grandmasters t here to coach him; F.had aJesuit priest (probably to pray for him, as he was no great asset to F.). Them's pretty big odds against when you stop and think about it.
i have to go with kasparov. he is just so amazing with the way he moved around a chess board but it would have been nice to see fischer vs. kasparov
Who's the best at illogical, twisted, Anti-Semitic, conspiracy theory injected rants? It has got to be Fischer. Kasparov actually makes sense when he talks about things other than chess. Who's the best at alleging torture against the police in a small booklet? Fischer again.
But I think you have chess in mind, so I have to say I agree with you about Kasparov. I have always had a sense of his play as scientific and logical whereas Fischer's always seemed melancholic and emotional. Since I prefer the former method of play I have to go with Kasparov.
It is kind of interesting that if you say Fischer was the best and Fischer said Morphy was the best, then what? Either you continue to believe Fischer was better (and that you know more about chess than Fischer) or that Morphy was better. But if you know more about chess than Fischer, then aren't you the best? Interesting...
tderifield wrote:
Who's the best at illogical, twisted, Anti-Semitic, conspiracy theory injected rants? It has got to be Fischer. Kasparov actually makes sense when he talks about things other than chess. Who's the best at alleging torture against the police in a small booklet? Fischer again.
But I think you have chess in mind, so I have to say I agree with you about Kasparov. I have always had a sense of his play as scientific and logical whereas Fischer's always seemed melancholic and emotional. Since I prefer the former method of play I have to go with Kasparov.
The topic is about best chess player not about personality.
Your little rant about Fischer's rants is quite revealing about you!!
Fischer's play was one step beyond Capablanca's almost perfect play when he was in his prime.
1. Robert James Fischer.
2. Kasparov.
3. Emanuel Lasker
4. Alekhine/Capablanca
5. Kramnik , Anand or Morphy...
Way too many too choose from for sixth place. Although Akiba Rubinstein belongs in the top 20 players as well as Carl Schlecter, Harry Nelson Pillsbury, Paul Keres and David Bronstien.-SIX
im a big fan of kasparov and i think because he got a higher fide he is better
FIDE ratings are inflated, 100 points or so. Fischer's record against Petrosian is +6 and also the same against Spassky, Kasparov is only equal against both of these players, nuff said.
Apr 7, 2008
0
#57
Tough. For me, clear #1 and #2 to ever play. Slight edge to Kasparov....
fischer is the best and there is no other. sorry to say..
do you have any reason behind this? let me ask you something... Has Kasparov ever defeated two opponents in back-to-back matches with perfect scores in order to play for the world championship? I think not.
I'll have to go with Kasparov too. On top of the fact that he has a higher Elo and IQ rating than Fischer; he's also the only chess player that I know of who has participated in simuls against GM teams and beat them.
Seriously, are you smoking some crack?! Where are you getting this B.S.? 1) Kasparov's rating is inflated. 2) Fischer's IQ was MUCH higher than Kasparov's. 3) Fisher was one of the first to give simuls against GMs and beat them. I think you need to do some reading before you decide to give your horribly wrong opinion. Would you like for me to give some book names you could read?
Look, if you want to debate then please do so without the immature pejoratives.
The inflation part was mentioned in my previous post, I suggest you read it. About the IQ's, I've got multiple sources and the general concensus is that Fischer's is around 180 and Kasparov's is 190. Here's just one for example: http://www.aceintelligence.com/iq_of_famous_people.php
And I've never heard of Fischer playing multiple GMs in simuls, I only know of Kasparov doing such a thing. I'm not just talking about an ordinary simul where there might be only 1 GM and the other players are rated sub-1800; I'm talking about playing a team of GMs simultaneously. So I'd appreciate if you provide a source to your statement or maybe the players/team that Fischer played against.