Fisher vs. Kasparov

A "fact" is not a statement you make that can neither be proved true or false. Heresay, does not make a proposition a "fact". It is not a "fact" that Fischer was rude or not to an opponent after losing, it is your assumption. The evidence for your assumption only includes heresay, as you were not present during Fischers games.

Another assumption you make is that I "hate" Fischer. I probably do not understand his games as you do National Master Reb, but I do understand some of the things he chose to say. On this point he is quite unimpressive. Your "old indian proverb" would censor everybody from making any judgements on anyone. This should not be the case. As far as Fischer being some type of model human being prior to 1972, I am well aware of his public opinions on Women and Russians which  dispute your entirely bias claims

The wordy duel isgoing-on distracting the main issue Fischer vs Kasparov. Nobody doubts that K would win.Is it correct? 

1. In saying that you "know" this to be true, it appears to us that you mean to claim that it is a "fact".

2. It is impossible for a Kasparov-Fischer game to ever take place in the future. Hence, we cannot know whether or not Fischer would indeed say such a thing.

3. Following your definition, something that cannot be proved can never be considered to be a "fact".

4. Hence, it is not possible for you to know what you purport to know because it is "a fact".

5. Therefore, it must be an assumption you have introduced as a fact.

6. You have accused NM Reb of introducing assumptions as facts.

7. It follows that you are a hypocrite.

It is a pleasure to speak with Jacques Derrida, who would have probably giggled at this point. Derrida, my statement of knowing what Fischer would say, I felt, was obviously tongue -in-cheek. Since you have taken words, meant to amuse, and made additional claims upon my sentences which were not there, all with the conclusion of calling me a "hypocrite", I feel you have erred on my behalf. I find all your numbered points to be in error as the premise from which they are drawn, was misunderstood. Thank you though, for addressing me of all people, Mr. Derrida.

Without wanting to drag myself into this conversation, I'd like to stick up for Derrida by saying (truthfully) that it was not at all clear that your comment was tounge-in-cheek, Tryst. So back off a little. 

EDIT: Especially after the posts you followed up with.

It doesn't sound as if you are one to have a sense of humor, Nytik.

 " Judge ye not lest ye be judged." 

And actually the proverb allows for judging if " you have walked a mile in their moccassins".

As for any bias on my part I admit there is some as I always tend to defend a victim when gangs are attacking them. At the same time I have grown sick of the demonization of Fischer since he never actually harmed anyone. He said some hateful things , big deal !  Would you even care if he had said the same hateful things against Iranians and Muslims perhaps ? I am betting not. When people who constantly attack someone claim they dont hate them I wonder who do they think they are fooling ? If indeed you dont hate him then I shudder to think how you might treat someone you do hate. I  bet you might even say hateful things about them ! Its just my opinion but I think Fischer is the greatest player who has ever lived and he has definitely done more for chess than anyone before or since. For these reasons alone he deserves some respect from the chess playing community. Some of us can separate an artist and their art from their human failings and lack of perfection, and some of us, it seems, cannot. I dont know any perfect people btw and I dont believe any exist.

I dont want to make anymore assumptions ( like you did about Fischer's reaction if he were to lose to Kasparov ) about why you may feel like you do towards Fischer so why dont you just tell me ?  He said bad things about women, jews, americans, russians .... I miss anyone ? I gather that you are female and american so that would explain some of it, are you also jewish and or russian ? 

The same goes for you, as you have obviously failed to grasp that I was merely poking fun at your pompous manner of speech and your questionable way of conducting arguments.

[Edit:] Thanks, Nytik. I agree with you, what she said could very easily be misunderstood.

By the way, I'm inclined to think that it is Tryst who has a distorted sense of what is funny and what is not.

National Master Reb, I know love can be hard, whether it be for a living being, or a ghost, so I don't want to upset you any further with my insensitive remarks about that "great" chessplayer in the sky, Bobby Fischer. But, a few questions and points, I will address:

"...he has definitely done more for chess than anyone before or since."

I disagree. If you mean he brought notoriety, and larger purses, such things I find to be inevitable and hardly worth undying praise.

"Would you even care if he had said the same hateful things against Iranians and Muslims perhaps ?"

Where did this question come from? I like it if it is an implied criticism of the general view of the American media, and other Americans, but I am not in that camp.

"I gather that you are female and american so that would explain some of it, are you also jewish and or russian ?"

I am female, yes. An American citizen, embarrassingly, yes. Jewish, no, I am of no religion. Russian, no.

Wow!  It's kind of silly to be embarassed about your citizenship, considering you have no control over where you are born.  But, if it really bothers you, Canada is just across the river.

I understand, and agree with Samuel Johnson's famous quote regarding patriotism, but what is to be said about its opposite?

 There aint a river between all the borders in the world.. including Canada and Usa, why would she go to Canada when USA and Canada are the same thing?

serbianchess star wrote:

"There aint a river between all the borders in the world.. including Canada and Usa, why would she go to Canada when USA and Canada are the same thing?"

I know you live in Canada, Mat, but you obviously don't live in Windsor. 

Modern day Rome does bother me, but it's better to stay here and voice my opinion while it's still allowed. When I do meet those few people that are of like mind, we are relieved we're not alone.

Ooh, yes!  I think this is the first time I've whole-heartedly agreed with you.  Great analogy!  A decadent civilization.

Still, and all, I can't be embarassed to fly the flag that so many of my kin fought to preserve.

• Bobby is a tragic personality... He is an honest and good natured man. Absolutely not social. He is not adaptable to everybody’s standards of life. He has a very high sense of justice and is unwilling to compromise as well as with his own conscience as with surrounding people. He is a person who is doing almost everything against himself. I would not like to defend or justify Bobby Fischer. He is what he is. I am asking only for one thing. For mercy, charity. If for some reason it is impossible, I would like to ask you the following: Please correct the mistake of President François Mitterand in 1992. Bobby and myself committed the same crime. Put sanctions against me also. Arrest me. And put me in the same cell with Bobby Fischer. And give us a chess set.
  • Boris Spassky in an appeal to George W. Bush, August 7 2004 [55]

• I don't want him in my cell. I want a chick in my cell.
  • Fischer's response to Boris Spassky's letter to president Bush

fischer's going bad....

Discounting the embarrassing Michigan Screed I would say K would castle with a slight edge to white.

Any movies would have to be from cell block C, Tier 2 Dufresne you better be sick or dead in there.... ;-)

 I live 3-4 hours from there, but obviously i was talking about the whole Canada and USA, not just a couple of borders in windsor.

Fischer was a spoiled rotten nut job.

Key takeways from this thread-

Fischer was brilliant but ill.

Spassky remains the classiest World Champion of all time- without Fischer he would be the one compared to Kasparov.

Someone in this thread cares more about their political agenda then the truth on the chessboard, which is inappropriate for a chess forum.

I thought "terrorist" was like what "communist" used to be.