She makes positive changes by suing the Board of the USCF for $10 million, while she's a member of said Board? I wonder what your idea of negative changes is.
So -- if the kid's change had gone undetected, would it have had an influence on the real rankings? Was that his intention?
I think kicking him out of the tournament is more or less normal then.
8-12 is a wide range. 8 is a child but 12 is an age when responsibility is expected and required.
A stern talking-to and a light ban (month or two perhaps) seems in order.
If 8, then maybe require he/she bring some adultish supervision or be unable to play for awhile.
If 12, then tell him he's on third-strike probation for a year and facing a long suspension for any infraction of similar seriousness.
Also maybe a visit to the woodshed, open the door and someone like Reb is sitting on stool looking very stern. Get a good talking to.
How is it that a kid so young was in the Open section ? Is he over 2000 or just decided to "play up" ? In any event he should be punished. I would suspend him for an amount of time from rated tournament play if it were up to me.
100%. If a kid steals from a grocery store, he can still get arrested, yes?
Of course, this chess kid will (hopefully) still be punished at home, as well, but for the TD and the Federation to let this slide is unacceptable. This should be a hard-learned lesson, not an "Oopsie! My bad!".
Oh, and, Hey Reb! 
How is it that a kid so young was in the Open section ? Is he over 2000 or just decided to "play up" ? In any event he should be punished. I would suspend him for an amount of time from rated tournament play if it were up to me.
100%. If a kid steals from a grocery store, he can still get arrested, yes?
Of course, this chess kid will (hopefully) still be punished at home, as well, but for the TD and the Federation to let this slide is unacceptable. This should be a hard-learned lesson, not an "Oopsie! My bad!".
Oh, and, Hey Reb!
Hey skwerly .
maybe he was terrified his parents would beat him if he lost. you never know, maybe he was scared.
maybe he was terrified his parents would beat him if he lost. you never know, maybe he was scared.
excellent point
however i think he should be suspended
The kid should be punished and suspended from chess tournaments for awhile. Instead of the modern and popular opinion of "Hes only a kid" or "Its not a big deal" Children need to be held accountabl, and they need to learn that there are consequences to there actions.
maybe he was terrified his parents would beat him if he lost. you never know, maybe he was scared.
Maybe he was a robot from the future and had to win to save the world and let me marry Megan Fox.
maybe he was terrified his parents would beat him if he lost. you never know, maybe he was scared.
Maybe he was a robot from the future and had to win to save the world and let me marry Megan Fox.
Sadly...chm makes a valid point. There are parents like that out there. Ive seen it first hand in chess, martial arts, and kids basktball leagues.
I've never seen a child afraid of a beating from a parent if he lost a game of chess. It's a ludicrous excuse to make.
Professional athletes use drugs to get ahead and...they are only banned temporarily.
Professional athletes get photographed smoking marijuana and are only banned temporarily.
Professional athletes run a dog fighting ring and are barely spanked.
Professional athletes rape young women then return to the Lakers the following season with no repercussions.
Politicians take bribes and (most of the time) do not go to jail.
Politicians drive their car off a bridge and don't report the accident for several hours...long after their girlfriends have drowned.
Crooked businessmen and women steal millions from customers/the government or whatever and are rarely caught, and (except for madoff) even more rarely are they severly punished.
Regular people cheat on their taxes.
Just a few examples.
Just because cheating is everywhere doesn't make it right.
This kid was old enough to know the difference between right and wrong, and the next question I would ask is what the parents had taught him.
Today, he cheats at a chess tournament.
He needs to be taught a swift and firm lesson.
Or one day, when he's president of the USA but can't produce a birth certificate proving his citizenship and eligibility to run for that office in the first place you'll have another disaster for the USA.
(and old schachgeek will say, "I told you so.")
Ahh, hyperbole. It is so transparent.
Banning him for a year from all rated events might be sufficient penalty. It will certainly give him time to grow up and think about not doing it again.
Cheating is cheating, regardless the age of the perpetrator.
USCF should ban the kid for life, and his parents too if they are members. Shameful.
And why not? They banned Susan Polgar for less.
Oh, come on. Though I agree that he should definitely be punished--kids must learn that there are consequences for their actions, a lifetime ban is absurd. We all did stupid, unethical things when we were young'uns. Live and learn.
Professional athletes use drugs to get ahead and...they are only banned temporarily.
Professional athletes get photographed smoking marijuana and are only banned temporarily.
Professional athletes run a dog fighting ring and are barely spanked.
Professional athletes rape young women then return to the Lakers the following season with no repercussions.
Politicians take bribes and (most of the time) do not go to jail.
Politicians drive their car off a bridge and don't report the accident for several hours...long after their girlfriends have drowned.
Crooked businessmen and women steal millions from customers/the government or whatever and are rarely caught, and (except for madoff) even more rarely are they severly punished.
Regular people cheat on their taxes.
Just a few examples.
Just because cheating is everywhere doesn't make it right.
This kid was old enough to know the difference between right and wrong, and the next question I would ask is what the parents had taught him.
Today, he cheats at a chess tournament.
He needs to be taught a swift and firm lesson.
Or one day, when he's president of the USA but can't produce a birth certificate proving his citizenship and eligibility to run for that office in the first place you'll have another disaster for the USA.
(and old schachgeek will say, "I told you so.")
These examples undermine your original post. You suggested that he should be banned permanently when, as you can see from the above, much more severe crimes are not even given a permanent ban as the punishment.
He does need to be taught a swift and firm lesson; but your idea of doing that is totally rubbish and serves no purpose other than to destroy a potential talented youngsters' future Chess career. Typical 'hang-em-high' mentality of people who bring American Republican political propaganda into a Chess discussion.
There's a good reason why politics are banned from here.
Can I live in your fairy-tale?
I think he should be executed.
Seconded. I'll go sharpen the guillotine.
Nah. Just shoot him.
In an Open section involving IMs and GMs etc, the tournament should act like an adult tournament, and collect result slips with both players' signatures on them.
Ive never played in a tournament where this was done! Ive played in both section tournaments, school tournament, team tournament (including international), and also opens (although only on a small scale). Maybe this is just the deal in Ireland and england (which are the only places ive played rated games).
Back to punishing said child,
I definitely think this child should be punished, and given the punishment an adult would receive. I'm sure most of us have cheated in our youth in some form or another in something serious, but also kids deal with a giving out to different, and while some will never do it again after a scold or embarrassment others will.
I would suspend him for 3 months which means he is bound to miss out on a tournaent he wanted to play (punishment)! 6 is a long time imo in this case.
Of course everyone makes mistakes, but bad behavior is behavior that needs to be corrected. Where is the line drawn? How do we trust that this child won't do it again? No punishment may send the wrong message (i.e. "I got caught, but it wasn't so bad... maybe next time, I won't get caught..."). If the punishment isn't severe enough to deter the child from doing it again, then it really isn't much of a punishment.
The only way that I would see the "shame and humiliation" work is if maybe you took that child's name and what they did and plaster it on the bulletin board of their school... shamed by parents or by adults they may never see again doesn't have the same affect as shame by peers. Note: I don't recommend this.
In this particular case, the child actively sought to circumvent rules and cheat. This is not an accident or mistake... it is premeditated. As such, I think punishment is required in some shape or fashion. I think suspension is the least of his worries, and only being suspended would be a very lucky thing... Cheating is a very serious thing in chess (or anything else) and is not very well tolerated in the chess community...
Was this a USCF event?
Cheating is cheating, regardless the age of the perpetrator.
USCF should ban the kid for life, and his parents too if they are members. Shameful.
And why not? They banned Susan Polgar for less.
Join the real world, the kid is not remotely comparable to Susan Polgar and such a harsh sentence would defeat the purpose of a sentence in the first place. The idea is to correct the kid's behaviour; not simply prevent the bad behaviour by stopping him going to tournaments. Anyone who doesn't take his age into consideration is stupid.