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Hans Niemann Is Innocent and Has Been Reinstated
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llama_l wrote:
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:
These top level chess games are usually over 50 moves long. Maybe 10 moves or even 5-6 if the game is relatively simple most of the time, but 3? I'm sure there are more than that many "critical points" in even a world championship game.
Why are you sure GMs are wrong about chess when they know more than you about chess? That's weird.
Carlsen said if he got only 1 hint per game he'd be unbeatable. Hikaru said that for him, the hint wouldn't even have to be a move or a piece, just something as simple as 1 beep for the position is equal and 2 beeps for the position is not.
That is very believable. I think the same could be said of almost any high level recreational competition. In golf, where the highest competition is very, very close the slightest advantage at a single important point will usually make the difference between winning and losing.
In chess I would imagine it's even more advantageous to know a certain position is the turning point. Because there are no other outside influences, no luck, no environmental conditions, etc. I think a high level grandmaster, if he were to somehow know he has an advantage at a certain point, could probably beat Magnus most of the time.
Sep 4, 2023
0
#84
llama_l wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
llama_l wrote:
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:
These top level chess games are usually over 50 moves long. Maybe 10 moves or even 5-6 if the game is relatively simple most of the time, but 3? I'm sure there are more than that many "critical points" in even a world championship game.
Why are you sure GMs are wrong about chess when they know more than you about chess? That's weird.
Carlsen said if he got only 1 hint per game he'd be unbeatable. Hikaru said that for him, the hint wouldn't even have to be a move or a piece, just something as simple as 1 beep for the position is equal and 2 beeps for the position is not.
That is very believable. I think the same could be said of almost any high level recreational competition. In golf, where the highest competition is very, very close the slightest advantage at a single important point will usually make the difference between winning and losing.
In chess I would imagine it's even more advantageous to know a certain position is the turning point. Because there are no other outside influences, no luck, no environmental conditions, etc. I think a high level grandmaster, if he were to somehow know he has an advantage at a certain point, could probably beat Magnus most of the time.
Yeah, I agree it's because the competition is so close... and I guess there are many times where they can work it down to two options... either they should favor the move the maintains equality... or not... whether the "not equality" move gives them or their opponent an advantage would be revealed by the hint.
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;
Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,
And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
n/a
Sep 4, 2023
0
#85
DiogenesDue wrote:
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:
Cheating in 100 games out of 12,000+ isn't a big deal. And online has nothing to do with over the board. I never cheated online but when I first joined I didn't even know there were rules on that. I thought it was an obvious possibility that you don't know what someone is doing behind the screen. The theories on how he could have cheated were totally ridiculous and that sealed the deal for me that this whole thing was a hoax. The idea that a top GM would only need assistance in 3 moves of the game to guarantee a win was also absurd. Magnus just has a pathetic ego.
I trust that post will be food for thought Soupsailor ...
I've seen his posts in Open Discussion and I know better...
Sep 4, 2023
0
#86
SoupSailor72 wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:
Cheating in 100 games out of 12,000+ isn't a big deal. And online has nothing to do with over the board. I never cheated online but when I first joined I didn't even know there were rules on that. I thought it was an obvious possibility that you don't know what someone is doing behind the screen. The theories on how he could have cheated were totally ridiculous and that sealed the deal for me that this whole thing was a hoax. The idea that a top GM would only need assistance in 3 moves of the game to guarantee a win was also absurd. Magnus just has a pathetic ego.
I trust that post will be food for thought Soupsailor ...
I've seen his posts in Open Discussion and I know better...
You sound like Hans Niemann. Of course there's rules against cheating.
Sep 4, 2023
0
#87
DiogenesDue wrote:
SoupSailor72 wrote:
Cheaters don’t make up 10-20% of users on this site, not even close. Especially in faster time controls.
You can choose to believe that. But I'm not talking about your chances of running into a cheater in any given game. I'm talking about players that have cheated with an engine at some point even if it was one game or even one move...
If you have ever watched Naroditsky's speedruns, there's no shortage of cheaters at the 2200-2500 level online. It's a constant hazard at that range in rapid. They get caught, of course, but they can just start over...it takes weeks to detect and ban them and 15 minutes for them to be back in action with a new account. There are less in blitz and bullet, but don't fool yourself there either...bots are a lot more prevalent than people think.
What percentage of people do you think share pirated music and media offhand?
You just gave what is probably the most extreme example possible to prove your point. Sure, at the 2200-2500 level in rapid there is a gigantic cheating problem. Sure, when you are a GM streaming to 1,000 viewers, you are going to get streamsniped a couple times. This doesn't mean 10-20% of users on the site are cheaters that deserve to be banned. Not even remotely close.
And bots are hardly prevalent to the extent you make them out to be.
Sharing pirated music is not comparable at all.
Sep 4, 2023
0
#88
SoupSailor72 wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
SoupSailor72 wrote:
Cheaters don’t make up 10-20% of users on this site, not even close. Especially in faster time controls.
You can choose to believe that. But I'm not talking about your chances of running into a cheater in any given game. I'm talking about players that have cheated with an engine at some point even if it was one game or even one move...
If you have ever watched Naroditsky's speedruns, there's no shortage of cheaters at the 2200-2500 level online. It's a constant hazard at that range in rapid. They get caught, of course, but they can just start over...it takes weeks to detect and ban them and 15 minutes for them to be back in action with a new account. There are less in blitz and bullet, but don't fool yourself there either...bots are a lot more prevalent than people think.
What percentage of people do you think share pirated music and media offhand?
You just gave what is probably the most extreme example possible to prove your point. Sure, at the 2200-2500 level in rapid there is a gigantic cheating problem. Sure, when you are a GM streaming to 1,000 viewers, you are going to get streamsniped a couple times. This doesn't mean 10-20% of users on the site are cheaters that deserve to be banned. Not even remotely close.
And bots are hardly prevalent to the extent you make them out to be.
Sharing pirated music is not comparable at all.
What...??????? This forum is hilarious.
llama_l wrote:
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:
These top level chess games are usually over 50 moves long. Maybe 10 moves or even 5-6 if the game is relatively simple most of the time, but 3? I'm sure there are more than that many "critical points" in even a world championship game.
Why are you sure GMs are wrong about chess when they know more than you about chess? That's weird.
Carlsen said if he got only 1 hint per game he'd be unbeatable. Hikaru said that for him, the hint wouldn't even have to be a move or a piece, just something as simple as 1 beep for the position is equal and 2 beeps for the position is not.
That's total lunacy. 1 beep at a random time to tell them whether the position is equal or not will not convey any useful information for how to win the game. There are more than 3-5 "critical moves" in any top GM game.
Sep 4, 2023
0
#90
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:
llama_l wrote:
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:
These top level chess games are usually over 50 moves long. Maybe 10 moves or even 5-6 if the game is relatively simple most of the time, but 3? I'm sure there are more than that many "critical points" in even a world championship game.
Why are you sure GMs are wrong about chess when they know more than you about chess? That's weird.
Carlsen said if he got only 1 hint per game he'd be unbeatable. Hikaru said that for him, the hint wouldn't even have to be a move or a piece, just something as simple as 1 beep for the position is equal and 2 beeps for the position is not.
That's total lunacy. 1 beep at a random time to tell them whether the position is equal or not will not convey any useful information for how to win the game. There are more than 3-5 "critical moves" in any top GM game.
It's not lunacy. Single moves decide games.
SoupSailor72 wrote:
Cheaters don’t make up 10-20% of users on this site, not even close. Especially in faster time controls.
Cheating seems to increase at certain rating levels. I've found myself wanting to play here less and less, because this is what my inbox looks like more and more, whenever I start playing often:
You eventually start to distrust your potential opponents, and start to enjoy playing less ...
Sep 4, 2023
0
#92
The ducks are coming...
https://www.chess.com/forum/view/off-topic/duck-invasion-warning?page=1#last_comment
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:
llama_l wrote:
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:
These top level chess games are usually over 50 moves long. Maybe 10 moves or even 5-6 if the game is relatively simple most of the time, but 3? I'm sure there are more than that many "critical points" in even a world championship game.
Why are you sure GMs are wrong about chess when they know more than you about chess? That's weird.
Carlsen said if he got only 1 hint per game he'd be unbeatable. Hikaru said that for him, the hint wouldn't even have to be a move or a piece, just something as simple as 1 beep for the position is equal and 2 beeps for the position is not.
That's total lunacy. 1 beep at a random time to tell them whether the position is equal or not will not convey any useful information for how to win the game. There are more than 3-5 "critical moves" in any top GM game.
But a top level GM doesn't need a beep for 3-5 critical moves letting him know useful information. He only needs one.
I doubt such a strategy has anything to do with letting him know how to win the game. A top level GM already knows how to win games. He would just need a single hint, a single nudge, a single clue, that the current position is advantageous to him. Give him 20 or 30 minutes (or even 5) with that information, chances are he will find the advantage all on his own.
I look at it this way. I don't play games here anymore, but I do the puzzles because they are challenging. My puzzle rating is over 3000 even though my real rating is only 1700. Why the big difference? I believe it's because when I do a 3000 rated puzzle, I have a huge advantage that I do not have when playing an actual game. That huge advantage is that I KNOW there is an advantage in that position. I just have to find it. In a real game, probably 95% of the time I would never suspect I have that advantage and I'm not good enough to study every move, every position that well.
If that one little clue (knowing there is an advantage) can make a thousand-point difference in a player like me, imagine what a GM could do with it.
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:
That's total lunacy. 1 beep at a random time to tell them whether the position is equal or not will not convey any useful information for how to win the game. There are more than 3-5 "critical moves" in any top GM game.
Since GMs disagree, I think it's safe to say you should consider your complete lack of knowledge of how the game works at the highest levels.
SoupSailor72 wrote:
You just gave what is probably the most extreme example possible to prove your point. Sure, at the 2200-2500 level in rapid there is a gigantic cheating problem. Sure, when you are a GM streaming to 1,000 viewers, you are going to get streamsniped a couple times. This doesn't mean 10-20% of users on the site are cheaters that deserve to be banned. Not even remotely close.
And bots are hardly prevalent to the extent you make them out to be.
Sharing pirated music is not comparable at all.
Sure it is, ethically. It's a little farther upslope, not much.
Try it this way...if people had the opportunity to cheat with a 100% guarantee they would not ever be caught, what percentage of people would do so, in your estimation? Zero consequences beyond pangs of conscience, if there are any. What percentage?
Sep 4, 2023
0
#96
@IronSteam1 & @llama_l
I understand that cheating is a bit more prevalent at higher ratings, and rapid can even be unplayable. However, you two are in the top .01% of chess.com ratings.
The average player's inbox isn't quite that full.
Sep 4, 2023
0
#98
DiogenesDue wrote:
SoupSailor72 wrote:
You just gave what is probably the most extreme example possible to prove your point. Sure, at the 2200-2500 level in rapid there is a gigantic cheating problem. Sure, when you are a GM streaming to 1,000 viewers, you are going to get streamsniped a couple times. This doesn't mean 10-20% of users on the site are cheaters that deserve to be banned. Not even remotely close.
And bots are hardly prevalent to the extent you make them out to be.
Sharing pirated music is not comparable at all.
Sure it is, ethically. It's a little farther upslope, not much.
Try it this way...if people had the opportunity to cheat with a 100% guarantee they would not ever be caught, what percentage of people would do so, in your estimation? Zero consequences beyond conscience. What percentage?
I didn't mean ethically.
Sep 4, 2023
0
#99
Ok, let's vote. React thumbs up if you think Niemann cheated, thumbs down if you think he didn't.
These top level chess games are usually over 50 moves long. Maybe 10 moves or even 5-6 if the game is relatively simple most of the time, but 3? I'm sure there are more than that many "critical points" in even a world championship game.