Has Fide lowered the requirements to become GM?

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premio53

They have had lower standards for the "master" title in African countries for years.  I was reading an article on it several years ago.  It didn't explain the reasons behind it though.

Debistro
whirlwind2011 wrote:
Debistro wrote:

I think its a farce. If getting the GM title is that easy, maybe ALL the 2400 IMs should move to Africa and just beat a couple of weak GMs from Egypt. Really, what's going on with Fide? It's turning into a joke!

Do you think defeating grandmasters--even "weak" ones--in a tournament is easy?

Anyone who can compete with a horde of grandmasters and somehow manage to come out on top is most deserving of the GM title!

You obviously didn't read the article on Chessbase. The tournament where he was given the GM title only had one miserable GM participating, not a "horde" of GMs.That tournament was very low in strength, but I assume it is the best that Africa can muster.

In case you did not know, normally for GM norms you need to score probably at least 50% against mutiple GMs so that you prove you are as good as them and deserving of the GM title yourself.

Do you see what is wrong there? If I were him, I'd give back the title, because I know I don't deserve it (as in not making the GM cut), but that's just me.............Wink

Debistro
premio53 wrote:

They have had lower standards for the "master" title in African countries for years.  I was reading an article on it several years ago.  It didn't explain the reasons behind it though.

It would be good if you can find a reliable internet link that says just that.

whirlwind2011

@OP: No, I did not yet read the article, as I am at work and could not devote the time to do so at this moment. The circumstances being what you say, that is probably one of the stranger ways to earn the title. Still, I know too little about the comprehensive process to criticize it myself. Thanks for raising the topic.

SilentKnighte5

Still waiting for the REAL answer.

Synaphai

FIDE also awards the GM title to anyone who wins the World Junior Chess Championship, the Women's World Chess Championship or the World Senior Chess Championship. It does seem rather superfluous in the first two cases, though.

Martin_Stahl
Debistro wrote:
premio53 wrote:

They have had lower standards for the "master" title in African countries for years.  I was reading an article on it several years ago.  It didn't explain the reasons behind it though.

It would be good if you can find a reliable internet link that says just that.

I posted this link in your other topic too.

https://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=173&view=article

SilentKnighte5
Martin_Stahl wrote:
Debistro wrote:
premio53 wrote:

They have had lower standards for the "master" title in African countries for years.  I was reading an article on it several years ago.  It didn't explain the reasons behind it though.

It would be good if you can find a reliable internet link that says just that.

I posted this link in your other topic too.

https://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=173&view=article

Not sure how this link supports premio's claim.

Martin_Stahl
SilentKnighte5 wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:
Debistro wrote:
premio53 wrote:

They have had lower standards for the "master" title in African countries for years.  I was reading an article on it several years ago.  It didn't explain the reasons behind it though.

It would be good if you can find a reliable internet link that says just that.

I posted this link in your other topic too.

https://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=173&view=article

Not sure how this link supports premio's claim.

Table 1.24b. Players getting Gold in a Continental Championship get the GM Title. Getting a tie for 1st place qualifies for a GM norm.

SilentKnighte5
Martin_Stahl wrote:
SilentKnighte5 wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:
Debistro wrote:
premio53 wrote:

They have had lower standards for the "master" title in African countries for years.  I was reading an article on it several years ago.  It didn't explain the reasons behind it though.

It would be good if you can find a reliable internet link that says just that.

I posted this link in your other topic too.

https://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=173&view=article

Not sure how this link supports premio's claim.

Table 1.24b. Players getting Gold in a Continental Championship get the GM Title. Getting a tie for 1st place qualifies for a GM norm.

Then why did premio single out "african countries" in his post?  Seems like this applies to any country.

premio53

It's been several years since I read it.  I'm thinking it was in one of the old Computer Chess Reports by Larry Kaufman.  Regardless, I don't believe the standards should be lowered for sex, race, national origin or any other reason.  In that case they should ban most Jewish players who make up almost 50% of all the great chess players past and present.

Martin_Stahl
SilentKnighte5 wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:

Table 1.24b. Players getting Gold in a Continental Championship get the GM Title. Getting a tie for 1st place qualifies for a GM norm.

Then why did premio single out "african countries" in his post?  Seems like this applies to any country.

Not sure why Africa was singled out in that post. It isn't for a country championship, but a Continental one and yes, it should be true for any such championship. That said, I don't know if/how the qualifications/rules may have been changed in the past.

premio53
Martin_Stahl wrote:
SilentKnighte5 wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:

Table 1.24b. Players getting Gold in a Continental Championship get the GM Title. Getting a tie for 1st place qualifies for a GM norm.

Then why did premio single out "african countries" in his post?  Seems like this applies to any country.

Not sure why Africa was singled out in that post. It isn't for a country championship, but a Continental one and yes, it should be true for any such championship. That said, I don't know if/how the qualifications/rules may have been changed in the past.

I didn't single out "african countries" but was just posting what I had read which did use the phrase "african countries."

SilentKnighte5
NotAllowedTo wrote:

No, please, enlighten us! I love to break political correctnes's neck!!!

Still waiting for him to enlighten us.  Pretty cowardly to hide behind "political correctness".

TheGreatOogieBoogie

It's kind of lowered by default due to the fact that you have more people with a GM level playing strength than in previous generations.  Morphy for example didn't even face anyone of modern IM strength and Lasker very rarely did. 

For the GM title to be as exclusive as it once was the bar has to be set to 2700+ or maybe 2750+ because while a 2600 playing strength was good enough for GM in yesteryear to be an elite player you have far more people of that strength nowadays. 

Elphaba13

Well, Ive seen multiple GMs with rating between 2400 and 2500, so I dont think it is that undeserved, especially considering his success at the tournament. And I wouldnt be outraging, when they have this rule about getting a GM title for winning a continental tournament, than making an exception for Africa since they dont have such a strong poll of players would be another form of unfairness.. As was already said, if you dont like it, start your own federation.

Debistro
Elphaba13 wrote:

Well, Ive seen multiple GMs with rating between 2400 and 2500, so I dont think it is that undeserved, especially considering his success at the tournament. And I wouldnt be outraging, when they have this rule about getting a GM title for winning a continental tournament, than making an exception for Africa since they dont have such a strong poll of players would be another form of unfairness.. As was already said, if you dont like it, start your own federation.

For your info, those GM players you see with 2400 something rating are those who have declined in playing strength, NOT those who just gained the title. They were 2500+ in the past. If this new South African GM gets his ass whooped by other GMs in future and does not seem to be able to compete with them on level terms, would that not be embarrassing?

You can tell he is feeling self conscious about his rating when he says in the interview that his main goal is to improve his rating. I LOLed when I read that. I would just give the title back to Fide....

Debistro
Martin_Stahl wrote:
SilentKnighte5 wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:

Table 1.24b. Players getting Gold in a Continental Championship get the GM Title. Getting a tie for 1st place qualifies for a GM norm.

Then why did premio single out "african countries" in his post?  Seems like this applies to any country.

Not sure why Africa was singled out in that post. It isn't for a country championship, but a Continental one and yes, it should be true for any such championship. That said, I don't know if/how the qualifications/rules may have been changed in the past.

So it is settled then. If you are an IM stuck in IM hell for years, the best way to get your GM title is to win the African Continental Championship. The standard there is obviously VERY low. Of course, first, you have to qualify to get the chance to play there....Wink

Debistro
chessmicky wrote:

Well Debistro, one thing you can be sure of is that this "weak" GM could play a simul agaist 20 Debistros and probably score 100%

Context, my "friend". We are talking about strength and weakness from the Elo rating point of view (and it goes all the way to 2860). Understood?

TheOldReb

FIDE gives out affirmative action type titles , which cheapens the titles imo and certainly isnt fair to those who qualify for the title the " hard/correct"  way .